Automating Sales Workflows: When to Use Automation Over Chat

Automating Sales Workflows: When to Use Automation Over Chat

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

In sales management, there’s often some confusion about when to use artificial intelligence chat interfaces versus automation workflows. Chat interfaces are ideal for creative problem-solving, learning, and strategic research, while automation excels in repetitive, high-volume, data-driven sales tasks. The trick is to recognize when consistency and scalability are more important than customization.

Automation delivers consistent execution, eliminates human error, and operates 24/7. Sales leaders can rely on it for triggered communications, data synchronization across systems, CRM updates, and compliance tasks that require accuracy and complete audit trails. By moving these routine tasks into automated workflows, sales teams free up valuable time for relationship building, revenue generation, and refining sales strategies.

Real-world examples highlight the impact: a team once spent three hours daily crafting manual follow-up emails. Shifting to automated sequences not only saved time but also improved messaging consistency and pipeline response rates. Similarly, another team utilized automation to synchronize sales data across six systems, thereby eliminating bottlenecks and enabling sellers to focus fully on sales.

Hybrid approaches really take things to the next level! By merging human creativity in chat interactions with the quick and precise power of automation, businesses can craft workflows that beautifully balance personalized service with the ability to grow. This type of teamwork enhances value-driven selling, sharpens business skills, and accelerates revenue management throughout the sales journey.

Avoiding common pitfalls is essential. Overengineering automation, failing to consider team skills, or building systems in isolation can slow progress. The most effective strategies focus on simple, well-integrated workflows that evolve as business needs change.

The future of B2B sales isn’t about choosing between humans and AI. It’s about humans amplified by AI. Let’s build that future together.

If you’d like to explore this topic in more depth, a podcast episode is available that covers all this information and more. You can find the link below and consider subscribing to the podcast AI Tools for Sales Pros on your favorite podcast player.

Sales Management with AI: Chat Interfaces vs. Automation Workflows

Sales Management with AI: Chat Interfaces vs. Automation Workflows

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Sales organizations today face a critical decision: should they rely on interactive chat interfaces like ChatGPT, Claude, or Gemini, or should they focus on automation workflows? The answer isn’t either/or. Each approach has unique strengths, and choosing the right one directly impacts sales processes, productivity, and revenue generation.

The problem many sales teams encounter is “random implementation.” They hear about a new AI tool, adopt it quickly, and use it for the wrong purpose. The result? Chat interfaces get bogged down with repetitive work, and automation gets tasked with jobs that require creativity and nuance. Misuse not only reduces efficiency but also frustrates teams and erodes trust in artificial intelligence altogether.

So how do you know when chat is the right fit? The decision comes down to task complexity and uniqueness. Chat excels in situations that require creativity, flexibility, and human judgment. Four categories consistently stand out:

  • Creative and strategic tasks: proposals, executive messaging, strategic planning, and competitive positioning.
  • Complex problem-solving: sales opportunity strategy sessions, unique customer needs, and crisis management.
  • Learning and development: role-playing objection handling, skill coaching, and competitive intelligence training.
  • Research and analysis: prospect research, market analysis, and strategic planning.

Real-world examples show why this matters. Sales teams that use chat interfaces to refine proposals or craft custom strategies consistently achieve better win rates. Reps practicing objections with conversational AI ramp faster and perform better. Strategic analysis guided by chat tools generates insights that canned research often misses.

The key takeaway is straightforward: chat interfaces are most effective when tasks require human oversight, creativity, and iterative improvement. These are the high-value, low-frequency tasks where human expertise combined with AI delivers maximum impact. For repetitive, high-volume processes, automation is the right tool.

The future of B2B sales isn’t about choosing between humans and AI. It’s about humans amplified by AI. Let’s build that future together.

If you’d like to explore this topic in more depth, a podcast episode is available that covers all this information and more. You can find the link below and consider subscribing to the podcast AI Tools for Sales Pros on your favorite podcast player.

The AI Sales Process Map: The Ten-Stage Sales Process Framework

The AI Sales Process Map: The Ten-Stage Sales Process Framework

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Sales leaders today often fall into the trap of using artificial intelligence tools randomly rather than systematically. This sporadic usage is like owning a Swiss Army knife but only using the bottle opener; you miss out on ninety percent of the available value. AI’s real power comes not from isolated tools but from integrating capabilities across every stage of your sales processes. When mapped correctly, AI accelerates every interaction, shortens sales cycles, and makes revenue generation more predictable.

Random AI adoption leads to inconsistent results. Some reps use it effectively, while others revert to manual methods under pressure, resulting in uneven performance. Systematic AI integration, however, compounds improvements across the entire sales cycle. Data captured at one stage strengthens the next, creating a virtuous cycle of sales success that is scalable, measurable, and sustainable. The outcome is not just faster deals, but stronger business acumen and more consistent revenue management.

The ten-stage AI sales process framework provides a structured way to apply AI:

  1. Prospecting,
  2. Outreach,
  3. Qualification,
  4. Scoping,
  5. Presentation,
  6. Economic Buyer meetings,
  7. Validation Events,
  8. Proposals,
  9. Closing,
  10. Onboarding/expansion.

Each stage leverages AI differently, from intent data analysis in prospecting to AI-driven customer success monitoring post-close. Integration ensures that research informs outreach, discovery guides scoping, and validation improves proposals. By connecting the entire workflow, sales teams gain predictable processes and continuous optimization opportunities.

Process-based implementation builds competitive advantage. Competitors can replicate isolated AI tools, but systematic integration across sales strategies and sales management creates a differentiated approach that scales with growth. Consistency across the team reduces dependency on individual skill differences, enhances messaging, and strengthens value selling.

The measurement framework behind this approach ensures continuous improvement. Stage-specific conversion rates, velocity metrics, and data quality indicators guide refinements. Weekly reviews, monthly AI effectiveness assessments, and quarterly adjustments keep teams aligned while maximizing ROI from AI investments. Over time, these optimizations compound, creating a performance engine that drives long-term revenue generation.

The future of B2B sales isn’t choosing between humans and AI. It’s humans amplified by AI. Let’s build that future together.

If you’d like to explore this topic in more depth, there’s a podcast episode that covers all of this information and more. You can find the link to the episode here and consider subscribing to the podcast AI Tools for Sales Pros on your favorite podcast player.

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – How Sales Leaders Use CRMs to Align Sales Processes, Value Selling, and Revenue Management – Episode 152

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – How Sales Leaders Use CRMs to Align Sales Processes, Value Selling, and Revenue Management – Episode 152

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey build on last week’s discussion of qualification methodologies and take the conversation further—into how these frameworks should live inside your CRM. From aligning sales processes with the buyer’s journey to enforcing accountability at each stage, this conversation offers practical strategies that every sales leader and salesperson can implement. Expect a deep dive into sales management, revenue generation, sales processes, and how value selling thrives when marketing and sales teams work in sync.

Key Topics Discussed

  • Why your CRM is the right home for qualification methodologies (00:48)
  • Best practices for embedding qualification questions into sales processes (02:01)
  • How sales leaders enforce discipline and consistency across teams (03:18)
  • Eliminating Excel spreadsheets and consolidating data for effective revenue management (05:12)
  • Aligning marketing collateral with sales strategies to support qualification and value selling (06:00)
  • Real-world stories of late-stage deal failures caused by missing buyer-side approvals (10:21)

Key Quotes

  • Kevin Lawson (05:12): “Oh, please, oh, please evacuate Excel spreadsheets from your solution guide… For the purposes of this discussion, we want to strenuously avoid having third-party apps disconnected from your system.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey (10:40): “There is nothing worse than missing your quarterly number because you didn’t know how they were going to buy… Knowing the paperwork process is the difference between celebrating the win and missing your commission check.”
  • Kevin Lawson (14:10): “Having a qualification methodology mapped into your CRM, aligned with a buyer’s journey and supported by marketing resources, gives you a fully wrapped system that prevents that dreaded CEO call asking, ‘What’s the status of that deal?’”

Additional Resources

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Embed your qualification methodology directly into your CRM, tied to each stage of your sales process.

Don’t let critical deal information reside inside spreadsheets or Word docs; configure your CRM so progression requires those qualification questions to be answered. This not only improves sales accuracy but also enhances revenue management, ensures consistency across your team, and creates alignment with marketing resources to drive value selling.

Summary

This episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales is a must-listen for anyone serious about building sustainable sales success. Sean and Kevin reveal how sales strategies such as qualification methodologies come to life when fully integrated into CRM-driven sales processes. You’ll learn why sales management must prioritize data consistency, how business acumen prevents late-stage deal disasters, and how aligning messaging between sales and marketing fuels stronger revenue generation. If you want practical insights on improving your sales processes and elevating your organization’s performance, download this episode today and start putting these best practices to work.

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Why Consistent Sales Strategies Win: Forecasting, Messaging, and Revenue Management – Episode 151

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Why Consistent Sales Strategies Win: Forecasting, Messaging, and Revenue Management – Episode 151

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey delve into the crucial role of deal qualification in driving sales success. From simple frameworks like BANT to advanced methodologies such as MEDDIC and MEDDPICCC, Kevin and Sean explain how consistent sales processes, value selling, and business acumen can sharpen forecasting, strengthen messaging, and ultimately accelerate revenue generation. Whether you’re managing a sales team or selling solo, this discussion will help you refine your sales strategies and improve your revenue management outcomes.

Key Topics Discussed

  • The cooking analogy for sales qualification – how preparing a meal mirrors building consistent sales processes 
  • Why full qualification matters – reducing forecast slippage, aligning solutions to customer needs, and driving predictable revenue generation.
  • BANT explained – Budget, Authority, Need, and Timeline as a simple framework for qualifying deals 
  • Beyond BANT – an overview of advanced methodologies such as SPIN, SPICED, and NEAT for value selling in complex deals 
  • Deep dive into MEDDIC and MEDDPICCC – why metrics, the economic buyer, and champions are essential for enterprise-level sales success 
  • The importance of sales management consistency – ensuring every salesperson in an organization qualifies deals with the same discipline 

Key Quotes

  • Kevin Lawson : “When you close things better, when you have more deal intelligence or customer intelligence or relationship intelligence gained through a qualifying methodology, you end up being better able to serve a customer.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey : “If you have five salespeople trying to qualify deals, you want them to qualify them the same way—consistency matters because it creates repeatable sales success.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey : “Every deal needs a champion. If you can get a champion to sell for you when you’re not there, you are far more likely to win.”

Additional Resources

  • HubSpot Blog: A Guide to Sales Qualification Frameworkshttps://blog.hubspot.com/sales/6-popular-sales-methodologies-summarized
  • The Qualified Sales Leader by John McMahon is an essential read on MEDDIC from one of the most successful sales leaders in software history. https://a.co/d/76089W7
  • Join the B2B Sales Lab for 90 days free and access practical community discussions on sales strategies, revenue management, and messaging. https://b2b-sales-lab.com

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Select and consistently implement one sales qualification framework across all your deals.
Whether you adopt BANT for simplicity or MEDDPICCC for enterprise-level selling, consistency in qualification builds stronger forecasts, improves customer alignment, and accelerates revenue generation. Decide on one methodology, train your team, and hold yourself accountable to using it every time.

Why You Should Listen

This episode is packed with practical insights for salespeople, managers, and business leaders committed to improving revenue management and sales success. Kevin and Sean take you from everyday analogies to advanced enterprise strategies, showing why consistent qualification is the backbone of predictable growth. If you want sharper sales processes, better forecasting, and stronger messaging that supports value selling, you won’t want to miss this conversation. Download now and start applying these proven sales strategies to your own pipeline.

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Sales Strategies That Outperform AI Tools: ICP, Value Selling, and Revenue Management – Episode 150

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Sales Strategies That Outperform AI Tools: ICP, Value Selling, and Revenue Management – Episode 150

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

In today’s fast-changing sales landscape, everyone is talking about AI, automation, and digital tools, but are these the keys to sales success? In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey explore why documenting your sales processes, defining your ideal client profile (ICP), and sharpening your value selling approach must come before chasing shiny new technologies. Whether you’re leading a sales team or building revenue generation strategies as a business owner, this episode delivers practical advice for aligning business acumen with modern sales strategies.

Key Topics Discussed

  • [00:01:00] The foundational role of sales processes: Why documenting your sales processes is more important than rushing into automation or AI.
  • [00:03:00] Defining your Ideal Client Profile (ICP): How knowing precisely who you should sell to drives revenue management and sales success.
  • [00:06:00] AI without ICP is useless: Kevin explains why AI and automation fail without strong sales strategies and a written ICP.
  • [00:09:00] Automating bad processes makes junk faster: Sean shares insights from decades in sales and automation.
  • [00:12:00] Real growth impact: Data showing how companies with a documented ICP experience higher win rates, deal closure, and long-term revenue generation.

Key Quotes

  • Kevin Lawson [00:06:00]: “AI tools don’t work unless they are programmed to know what you’re trying to look for. If your value proposition and ICP aren’t documented, you’ve basically bought another untrained person.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey [00:10:23]: “If you automate a bad process, all you do is make junk faster. Get the basics right first.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey [00:12:57]: “Companies with a documented ICP have an account win rate 68% higher than those without one. That’s the power of clarity in sales processes.”

Additional Resources

  • Exclusive whitepapers on Ideal Client Profiles and Value Selling Propositions are available inside the B2B Sales Lab Community. www.b2b-sales-lab.com and go to the Sales Resources section.
  • Previous episode: Winning Sales Strategies for Productive, High-Impact Pipeline Reviews https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/winning-sales-strategies-for-productive-high-impact/id1668686029?i=1000721736213

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Write down your Ideal Client Profile (ICP).

Even if you think you already know your best customers, putting it in writing transforms sales management and revenue generation. A written ICP sharpens your messaging, aligns your sales processes, and empowers value selling. Without it, AI tools and automation will fail to deliver meaningful results.

Why You Should Listen

If you’re serious about sales success, this episode is a must. Kevin and Sean break through the noise of AI hype to uncover the timeless truths of revenue management, sales strategies, and business acumen. Learn how to strengthen your sales processes, improve messaging, and drive consistent revenue generation. Packed with stories, data, and practical wisdom, this episode equips you with the clarity needed to win more deals and build long-term sales success.

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Winning Sales Strategies for Productive, High-Impact Pipeline Reviews – Episode 149

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Winning Sales Strategies for Productive, High-Impact Pipeline Reviews – Episode 149

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Pipeline reviews don’t need to feel like an ambush. In this episode, Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey break down how to turn pipeline meetings into high-value working sessions that improve sales management, strengthen sales processes, and accelerate revenue generation. The conversation focuses on preparation discipline, trust, and transparency, as well as a practical playbook for advancing complex deals through relationship mapping and peer-to-peer executive engagement.

You’ll hear straightforward sales strategies you can implement immediately, whether you lead a large enterprise team or a small, founder-led organization. Expect a sharp focus on business acumen, value selling, and the day-to-day messaging that keeps deals moving. The result is a meeting format that fuels sales success and better revenue management, not another hour of defensive status reporting.

Key Topics Discussed

  • Make pipeline reviews not suck — Focus the agenda on the few deals that genuinely need help; skip deep dives on healthy opportunities. [~00:00:00]
  • The salesperson’s prep checklist — Current notes, clear qualification status, and a concrete next step; never open with “I need to get a meeting.” [~00:03:00]
  • Trust, transparency, and speed — Why open admission of gaps prevents executive “gotchas” and keeps the team collaborative. [~00:04:34–00:05:34]
  • Taming the “big deal” distraction — How sales leaders manage CEO attention and ensure one opportunity doesn’t hijack the meeting. [~00:07:52–00:08:20]
  • Relationship mapping for top deals — Title-to-title engagement, executive assignments, and the “11-on-11” football metaphor for flawless execution. [~00:09:00–00:11:55]
  • Adapting for smaller orgs — Three-on-three analogy, “weaponize” your internal team as peer resources, and coach reps to lead 1:1s. [~00:12:30–00:15:06]

Key Quotes

  • Sean O’Shaughnessey [~00:01:36]: “Bring up the ones that hurt, the deals where you need help. Wouldn’t it be nice to get helped in a pipeline review instead of just being told to ‘get your ass out there and go work on it’?”
  • Kevin Lawson [~00:05:00]: “Transparency is our key that will keep us moving forward and fast. Sales pipeline meetings don’t have to be the Spanish Inquisition.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey [~00:11:34]: “Run your top deals like you’re running a football team, every player knows their assignment, and you execute flawlessly.”
  • Kevin Lawson [~00:14:33]: “For one-to-ones, the salesperson should be leading the meeting, your job is to coach them to bring challenges you can clear.”

Additional Resources (mentioned in the episode)

  • Sales Meeting Agenda Templates — Free downloadable agendas for effective pipeline reviews and 1:1s (from Sean and Kevin’s sites).
  • B2B Sales Lab Community — A peer-led forum to refine sales strategies, strengthen messaging, and accelerate revenue generation. https://b2b-sales-lab.com/

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Adopt the “Help-First Pipeline Review” and Relationship Map.

Before your next review, split your pipeline into two lists: On-Track and Needs Help. Use meeting time almost exclusively on the “Needs Help” list. For each flagged deal, arrive with: (1) current status and qualification level, (2) the single next step, and (3) a relationship map that pairs your execs and functional leaders title-to-title with the customer’s counterparts (CEO↔CEO, CFO↔CFO, VP Eng↔VP Eng). Assign those internal players specific outreach tasks and deadlines. This simple shift transforms pipeline reviews into working sessions that improve sales management, sharpen sales processes, and advance value-based conversations, fast.

Two quick tips to lock it in:

  1. Never start with “I need to get a meeting.” Instead, say, “I’m trying to reach Larry; here are the three touches I’ve already made and my next move.”
  2. Preempt “big deal” derailments by updating its status in CRM ahead of time and summarizing it briefly; then return to the prepared “Needs Help” list.

Summary

If pipeline reviews feel like public performance reviews, this conversation will reset the culture. Kevin and Sean outline a decisive, repeatable approach that blends business acumen, crisp messaging, and practical value selling to move deals. By prioritizing help over inspection, mapping peer-to-peer relationships, and coaching reps to lead, you’ll turn a dreaded ritual into a lever for sales success and consistent revenue management. Queue it up, your next pipeline meeting can actually be the best hour of your sales week.

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – No Leads, No Problem: Sales Strategies to Reignite Momentum – Episode 148

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – No Leads, No Problem: Sales Strategies to Reignite Momentum – Episode 148

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

When your sales pipeline hits a wall—or worse, goes completely flat—it can feel like you’re spinning your wheels. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive deep into what to do when your sales team is facing a revenue generation stall. This is a fast-paced, actionable conversation focused entirely on what sales leaders can do to recharge a stalled pipeline—without relying on marketing. Whether you’re in B2B tech, manufacturing, or professional services, this episode will equip you with practical, high-impact tactics to get your sales process moving forward again.

Key Topics Discussed

  • The “Flat Tire” Sales Pipeline Analogy (00:00)
    Why pipelines go flat—even after big wins—and how leaders can reframe the issue.
  • The Power of Referrals and Networking (03:00)
    Sean’s method for turning satisfied customers into a referral engine—complete with a ready-to-send intro letter.
  • Expanding Through Customer Proximity and Chambers of Commerce (05:00)
    Leveraging existing accounts and local business events to rapidly refill the funnel.
  • Using PESTEL for Industry-Relevant Messaging (07:00)
    Kevin shares a practical framework for creating insightful sales conversations that show business acumen and relevance.
  • Requalifying Open Deals with the Right Buyers (08:00)
    How to use sales processes and CRMs to validate opportunities—and why “access to power” is non-negotiable.
  • Getting to the Economic Buyer—and Asking for the Order (11:00)
    A breakdown of how to engage decision-makers, handle their buying criteria, and close with confidence.

Key Quotes

  • “I don’t care what you sell—coolants, software, promotional gear—if you’re not prospecting today, your pipeline will let you down tomorrow.”
    — Sean O’Shaughnessey (01:07)
  • “We’re not a demo organization. If the demo alone sold your product, you wouldn’t need a salesperson.”
    — Kevin Lawson (10:00)
  • “If your salespeople can’t tell you who the economic buyer is, it’s time for you to get in the car and go meet them yourself.”
    — Sean O’Shaughnessey (12:00)

Additional Resources Mentioned

  • B2B Sales Lab Community – A peer-led space for sales professionals and leaders to grow, collaborate, and share sales strategies. (Free 90-day trial with credit card to keep out spammers.) www.b2b-sales-lab.com
  • PESTEL Framework – A structured approach for bringing value to sales conversations by focusing on Political, Economic, Social, Technological, Environmental, and Legal issues impacting buyers.

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Requalify Every Deal in Your Pipeline This Week

Sales leaders: pull your team into a pipeline review and ask a simple, high-stakes question about every open opportunity—“If you walked in with a PO today, could your contact sign it?” If the answer is “no,” that deal is not qualified. Use this exercise to reinforce accountability, focus on real economic buyers, and prioritize deals that can convert into revenue. Don’t just forecast—verify.

Why You Should Listen Now

If you’ve ever looked at your pipeline and felt that creeping sense of panic, this episode is your emergency roadside kit. Sean and Kevin don’t waste time with fluff—they deliver real sales strategies rooted in decades of experience with sales management, business acumen, and revenue generation. From value selling tactics to reengaging your best customers, this conversation is loaded with sales success insights you can implement today. Plug in, take notes, and start patching your pipeline with purpose.

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Breaking the Silos: Aligning Sales and Marketing for Real Revenue Growth – Episode 147

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Breaking the Silos: Aligning Sales and Marketing for Real Revenue Growth – Episode 147

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive deep into one of the most misunderstood dynamics in business: the relationship between sales and marketing. Pulled directly from a thought-provoking question inside the B2B Sales Lab community, this conversation explores how sales teams can contribute meaningfully to marketing efforts and why that collaboration drives better revenue generation. Whether you lead a sales team, run marketing campaigns, or wear both hats in a small business, this episode gives you practical strategies to align your teams, sharpen your messaging, and enhance sales success.

Key Topics Discussed

  • The Role of Sales in Marketing & Content Development (00:00)
    How sales leaders can become strategic contributors to content and campaign direction.
  • Being the Voice of the Customer Across the Business (00:02)
    Why sales must act as a conduit of market intelligence, not just for marketing but across production, delivery, and operations.
  • Sales Behavior That Builds or Breaks Internal Trust (00:04)
    The importance of accountability and humility when offering feedback to other departments.
  • Making Marketing a Regular Part of Sales Meetings (00:08)
    A tactical breakdown of how to engage marketing in the sales rhythm without derailing productivity.
  • Field Collaboration: Invite Your Internal Teams to Ride Along (00:10)
    Why taking engineers or operations managers on customer calls creates stronger cross-functional empathy and better customer experiences.
  • Marketing Assets: Create Them, Use Them, Give Feedback (00:12)
    How to close the feedback loop on content effectiveness and ensure sales uses what marketing builds.

Key Quotes

  • “Sales is accountable for driving the revenue, but sales is also accountable for working with marketing to get to a market-facing message that addresses current needs.”
    — Kevin Lawson (00:00)
  • “Your job in sales is to be the best-run department in the company. If you’re not, your opinion probably doesn’t matter.”
    — Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:08)
  • “Please, oh please, use the tools your marketing team creates for you. If you don’t, that’s on you.”
    — Kevin Lawson (00:12)
  • “There’s no better way to get internal teams aligned with customers than to take them on sales calls. Let them breathe your air and eat at Burger King between meetings.”
    — Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:11)

Additional Resources

  • B2B Sales Lab Community: A peer group for sales professionals focused on sharpening sales processes, messaging, and revenue management. www.b2b-sales-lab.com

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Hold a joint sales-marketing meeting each quarter.

Schedule a dedicated 30-minute session within your sales team’s recurring meeting where your marketing counterpart joins to review current messaging, upcoming campaigns, and voice-of-the-customer insights. Let marketing ask questions, present new content, and gather sales feedback. Use this as a structured loop to align both teams on business acumen, sales strategies, and revenue goals.

Why You Should Listen Now

If you’ve ever wondered why your sales messaging isn’t landing or why marketing feels “out of touch,” this episode is for you. Kevin and Sean pull back the curtain on how high-performing sales organizations dissolve silos, share real-time customer feedback, and co-create assets that drive revenue. Whether you’re a VP of Sales, a marketing leader, or a business owner trying to scale effectively, you’ll walk away with ideas you can implement this week to align your teams for better revenue generation and sales success. Tune in now and start building the team your customers deserve.

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Managing the Maverick: How to Lead Top Sales Performers Without Breaking Team Culture – Episode 146

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Managing the Maverick: How to Lead Top Sales Performers Without Breaking Team Culture – Episode 146

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

When a top-performing salesperson refuses to follow the rules, tensions flare, and your culture might suffer. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey tackle a question straight from their B2B Sales Lab community: What do you do with a sales rockstar who drives the rest of the team nuts? If you’ve ever struggled with managing high-output, low-alignment team members, this conversation is packed with valuable insights, practical strategies, and real-world advice to help you strike a balance between performance and healthy team dynamics. Tune in for battle-tested tips on sales management, building a high-integrity sales culture, and protecting your company’s long-term revenue generation strategy.

Key Topics Discussed

  • Establishing Clear Norms in Sales Teams – Why your “top dog” needs to play by the same rules as everyone else, and how undefined expectations damage sales processes (Approx. 02:00)
  • The Power of Documented Standards and Culture Alignment – How lack of structure in small businesses creates room for chaos—and what to do about it (Approx. 03:30)
  • Tactical Solutions for Managing Lone Wolves – Real examples of how to realign high performers through mentorship and responsibility (Approx. 09:00)
  • Creating a Unified Sales Culture Without Crushing Performance – Why culture eats strategy for breakfast, especially in sales teams (Approx. 04:30)
  • Using Silence, Expectations, and Consistency to Set Boundaries – Kevin shares how saying “no” and standing firm protects team cohesion and customer relationships (Approx. 12:00)

Key Quotes

  • “Culture is probably the most important thing you possibly can have—and it starts with setting clear expectations.”
    — Sean O’Shaughnessey (Approx. 06:05)
  • “Sales culture will eat strategy for breakfast. Culture always wins in the long run.”
    — Kevin Lawson (Approx. 04:39)
  • “Sometimes you have to accept a little current pain to create future gain for your entire organization.”
    — Kevin Lawson (Approx. 13:00)
  • “If you’re the person who colors outside the lines and won’t adjust… maybe you just don’t belong here.”
    — Sean O’Shaughnessey (Approx. 08:30)

Additional Resources

  • Learn more about the B2B Sales Lab community: https://b2b-sales-lab.com

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Assign a High-Performer as a Mentor to Drive Culture Alignment
If you’re dealing with a rule-breaking top performer, try this: assign them as a mentor to a junior rep. This strategic move puts them in a leadership position where they must model the very behavior they’ve been resisting, updating the CRM, following your sales strategies, and representing your company messaging. This peer responsibility often encourages cultural realignment without confrontation.


Why You Should Listen to This Episode

This episode is a must-listen for sales managers, business owners, and team leaders wrestling with the dilemma of performance vs. process. Sean and Kevin don’t just talk theory—they give real, implementable strategies that can help you protect your sales culture, enforce consistent sales management practices, and drive long-term revenue success. If you’re aiming for scalable growth without sacrificing team cohesion, this episode delivers practical wisdom and a few gut-check moments. Hit play and discover how to bring even the most independent salespeople back into the fold—without losing their fire.