Validation Events: The Unsung Hero of Sales Process Discipline

Validation Events: The Unsung Hero of Sales Process Discipline

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

In the complex world of B2B selling, trust is built in stages. The challenge in all sales campaigns is ensuring the prospect trusts they are making the best decision for their business.

  1. Do they trust that the salesperson is giving them all of the information?
  2. Do they trust that the company will support them after the sale?
  3. Do they trust that the product will perform as they expect it to perform?

As I have explained in my book, Eliminate Your Competition, as well as the blog for that book and in this blog, the prospect needs to trust all three elements the salesperson is selling:

  1. They need to trust the product.
  2. They need to trust the company behind the product.
  3. They need to trust the salesperson.

Prospects listen to your sales message, review your materials, and hear your claims, but none of that guarantees belief or trust. Trust is validated when your claims are validated. That’s why validation events are crucial to any rigorous sales process.

In The Qualified Sales Leader, John McMahon stresses the importance of customer-driven validation. He cautions sales leaders against relying on internal optimism or anecdotal “good signals” from prospects. Instead, McMahon emphasizes observable proof—real buyer behavior that confirms alignment, commitment, and value. Validation events are when the customer takes action to validate that what you’ve promised is accurate and valuable.

An excellent sample sale process flow looks like this:

  1. Discover
  2. Scoping
  3. Economic Buyer Meeting
  4. Validation Event
  5. Business Case and Final Proposal
  6. Negotiate and Close

As you can see, the Validation Event is the last step before creating the final business case, which will be bundled with your final proposal.

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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Steve Caton Shares When to Sell, When to Coach, and When to Hire: Strategic Sales Management That Drives Growth – Episode 137

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Steve Caton Shares When to Sell, When to Coach, and When to Hire: Strategic Sales Management That Drives Growth – Episode 137

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

In this powerful episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey are joined once again by Steve Caton, CEO of Altezza Solutions, for a thought-provoking conversation that zeroes in on one of the toughest decisions in sales leadership: when to sell, when to coach, and when to hire. Whether you’re a business owner, VP of Sales, or a player-coach juggling a quota and a team, this episode brings clarity to the strategic inflection point where growth hinges on letting go. With frank discussion, lived experience, and tactical advice, Kevin, Sean, and Steve guide you through the complex terrain of sales management, revenue generation, and scaling your team without sacrificing results.

Key Topics Discussed:

  • [00:01:58] The pros and cons of player-coach sales roles, and why this model often fails without intentional strategy
  • [00:05:34] How to create a psychologically safe sales environment where learning from failure drives sales success
  • [00:07:11] Steve Caton’s personal transition from sales operator to CEO—and how it triggered exponential business growth
  • [00:09:20] The difference between hiring to “swim faster” and hiring to scale—how business acumen guides the decision
  • [00:13:00] Real-world use cases for fractional sales roles to test new markets or offerings without disrupting core revenue streams

Key Quotes:

  • Kevin Lawson [00:04:57]: “Sometimes you have to let people fail. You can’t push them into failure, but you do have to give them the room to learn. The challenge is, as a leader, you’re still accountable for that failure.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey [00:04:01]: “It’s much easier to do one thing well. Let great salespeople sell and great managers manage—don’t dilute either role.”
  • Steve Caton [00:08:30]: “I made the decision to stop selling before I could afford it. Why? Because I knew the payoff would be big. Sometimes, you just have to invest in your business to grow.”
  • Kevin Lawson [00:11:34]: “A sales process with control metrics, plus intentional feedback loops, informs exactly how and where your business should grow.”

Additional Resources:

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast:

Reevaluate your team structure and decide: are you scaling or surviving?
If you’re a business owner or sales leader wearing multiple hats, it’s time to assess whether you’re enabling growth or capping it. Consider where your time is most valuable—rainmaking, coaching, or closing—and invest in building the right team around you. Start with fractional or part-time hires to test new roles or markets, then double down when the data supports it.

Closing Summary:

This episode cuts through the noise around sales team building with a refreshing mix of vulnerability, experience, and strategic depth. Whether you’re weighing your first sales hire or deciding to step out of the player-coach role, Two Tall Guys Talking Sales delivers real-world sales strategies that help you align your messaging, sales processes, and revenue management decisions with long-term growth. Don’t miss this one—it’s 15 minutes of business-building insight that could change the trajectory of your sales organization. Hit play now and discover how letting go might be the smartest way to grow.

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Scaling Smarter: Building Sales Teams with Steve Caton – Episode 136

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Scaling Smarter: Building Sales Teams with Steve Caton – Episode 136

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

What does it take to scale a sales organization in today’s unpredictable business environment? In this dynamic episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Sean O’Shaughnessey and Kevin Lawson welcome back Steve Caton, CEO of Altezza Solutions, to unpack the nuances of scaling sales teams, especially through the power of fractional sales professionals. Together, they explore the critical role that sales processes, sales management, and business acumen play in enabling organizations to grow without overspending or compromising performance. Whether you’re navigating the “zero to one” phase or planning your expansion from one rep to five, this episode offers a roadmap for smart, sustainable revenue generation.

Key Topics Discussed

  • Zero to One vs. One to One Hundred: Two Models for Scaling Sales Teams (00:01:14)
    Kevin and Steve outline the difference between launching your first rep and accelerating team expansion, with a focus on structured growth.
  • Fractional Salespeople as a Low-Risk Growth Strategy (00:02:45)
    Steve explains how the fractional model supports learning, experimentation, and ROI without overcommitting resources too early.
  • Determining the Right Time to Expand Territories or Add Headcount (00:04:10)
    The team discusses key signals—like activity level, lead flow, and deal volume—that indicate when it’s time to grow.
  • Using Leading Indicators vs. Lagging Indicators in Sales Management (00:06:16)
    Steve shares the importance of measuring inputs (calls, meetings, proposals) over outputs (closed deals) to ensure predictable scale.
  • The Power of Process-Driven Selling for Sales Success (00:13:08)
    Sean and Steve emphasize why experienced sales pros rely on systems, not improvisation, and why process must precede people.

Key Quotes

  • Kevin Lawson (00:01:34):
    “Think hockey stick versus gradual—zero to one is about getting that first good hire. That’s when you unlock real scale potential.”
  • Steve Caton (00:02:45):
    “Start small, see what works, then expand. That’s the foundation of scalable revenue—and the fractional model makes that possible without spending a crazy amount of money.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:08:00):
    “Sales is about finding the customer that is going to buy—that’s not just a marketing thing, that’s a sales thing.”
  • Steve Caton (00:13:08):
    “Process comes before people. If there’s no process, your reps will build one—and that distracts them from actually selling.”

Additional Resources

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Use leading indicators—not just closed deals—to decide when it’s time to grow your sales team. Many companies scale reactively, hiring after success arrives. But Steve Caton challenges leaders to evaluate the activity level of their reps—calls made, meetings scheduled, deals created—to make data-driven decisions before hitting a bottleneck. If your top performer is maxing out their productive hours, it’s time to split territories, not overload. Review your leading indicators this week and see where your next growth step should begin.

Why You Should Listen

This episode is a must-listen for founders, CEOs, and sales leaders trying to build smarter, not just bigger. With deep insight into the value of fractional sales professionals, the importance of sales strategies, and how to use data for effective revenue management, Steve Caton offers a practical, grounded view of what scalable sales success looks like. If you’re serious about growing your team without growing your headaches, hit play and take notes.

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Winning Without Discounting: Mastering Value Selling at Premium Prices – Episode 135

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Winning Without Discounting: Mastering Value Selling at Premium Prices – Episode 135

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

When it comes to holding firm on pricing, many salespeople stumble at the finish line, undermining their value and margin in pursuit of a quick win. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey explore the essential topic of value selling, especially when offering a premium-priced solution. They break down how business acumen, sales strategy, and relationship-based selling contribute to sales success—and how to confidently command the price your product deserves. If you’ve ever been told you’re “too expensive,” this is your playbook for holding the line and still closing the deal.

Key Topics Discussed

  • Why customers buy more than just your product—they buy your company and you (00:01:00)
  • The danger of sending a quote without a conversation (00:02:21)
  • How sales reps can create momentum in late-stage deals by previewing terms early (00:03:00)
  • Breaking away from “feeds and speeds” and focusing on business outcomes (00:05:00)
  • Real-world coaching example: winning a deal despite being $9,000 more expensive (00:08:25)
  • The importance of sales process alignment with customer learning styles (00:10:48)

Key Quotes

“Your customers are not just buying your product—they’re buying your company, and they’re buying the wisdom of the salesperson.”
— Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:01:00)

“Don’t just throw a document on their desk that says, ‘here’s my price.’ That’s not value selling. That’s transactional noise.”
— Kevin Lawson (00:03:21)

“I told her: thank them for the feedback. Tell them you can’t meet the price because you’re delivering something of higher value—and she won the deal.”
— Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:09:01)

“If you’re always responding with a discount, you’re not putting forward the confidence that your product actually delivers value.”
— Kevin Lawson (00:10:28)

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Stop emailing quotes—start previewing them. Before sending out another proposal or quote, schedule a call or meeting with your prospect to review the terms and value proposition. Use that time to reinforce the business impact of your solution and clarify any remaining concerns. This approach increases close rates and reduces last-minute pricing objections, protecting revenue and margin.

Summary

In today’s ultra-competitive B2B environment, salespeople must do more than deliver specs—they must deliver confidence. This episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales arms you with a clear, repeatable strategy for commanding premium pricing through value selling. If you’re serious about improving your sales management, sales processes, and revenue generation tactics, then this 15-minute episode could be the most profitable quarter-hour of your week. Tune in now and elevate your ability to win—without discounting.

The Three Pillars of Sales Success: Ideal Client Profiles, Effective Messaging, and Aspirational Offers

The Three Pillars of Sales Success: Ideal Client Profiles, Effective Messaging, and Aspirational Offers

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Let’s start this article with a rhetorical question to the sales professionals, sales managers, or CEOs: Have you ever found yourself guilty of sending messages to prospects without fully considering their specific needs or how your offer aligns with them?

If so, you’re not alone—this is a common pitfall in sales. The good news is, it’s entirely fixable by developing a straightforward, strategic approach.

An effective sales strategy hinges on three core components: defining your ideal client profile (ICP), crafting a resonant message, and presenting a compelling offer. These elements are interconnected. Mastering their alignment will significantly enhance your sales effectiveness.

Ideal Client Profile

Let’s start with the ideal client profile. How well do you know the companies you’re targeting? Identifying your ideal customer is foundational to your entire sales approach. It’s not enough to say that your market is “small businesses” or “tech companies.” Instead, think about your best clients—the ones you genuinely enjoy working with, who value your product, and who generate profitable, sustainable business. Think about companies that rarely devalue your product or service by asking for a discount. What do these clients have in common?

Now that you have your favorite customers from above, reflect on your top five or ten accounts. Are they in the same industry? Do they share similar challenges or company structures? Perhaps they all have common goals that your product consistently solves. Pinpoint these commonalities. This process will help you create a precise and actionable ideal client profile.

But don’t stop at company-level characteristics. Remember, even in B2B sales, you’re ultimately selling to individuals. Identify the specific roles or buyers within these organizations that are responsible for making buying decisions. Who are these decision-makers? What motivates them personally and professionally? Do they all have the same kind of college education? Do they all have similar career paths? Understanding the people behind the logo makes your outreach more personal, targeted, and effective.

What is your message?

Once you’ve developed a clear picture of your ideal client and the people within those companies, the next step is crafting a message that reflects your value-selling message. This message is how you communicate your value proposition—it’s the bridge between your product and your prospect’s needs. Too often, sales messaging falls flat because it focuses heavily on the seller rather than the buyer. Statements that emphasize “we,” “I,” or “our product” rarely resonate deeply. Instead, effective messaging highlights the customer’s perspective, clearly communicating the benefits they will experience.

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Stop Guessing, Start Growing: How Strategic Sales Assessments Drive Real Revenue

Stop Guessing, Start Growing: How Strategic Sales Assessments Drive Real Revenue

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

You’ll eventually hit a wall if you’re running a sales organization—or wearing multiple hats as founder, CEO, and sales manager. That wall is often invisible until growth stalls, key deals slip through the cracks, or your top salesperson burns out. So, what’s the next move? It’s not more hustle. It’s assessment.

A sales assessment isn’t about checking boxes. It’s about understanding where you are, how you operate, and what’s holding you back. Too many small business leaders assume they’re doing fine because revenue is growing or the team is hitting their quotas. But are you growing at the rate your market allows? Are your sales activities aligned with your long-term goals? Are you building a repeatable system, or are you just getting lucky?

Let’s get tactical. A sales plan isn’t just a revenue target. It’s your go-to-market strategy. It defines your audience, your message, and your motion. It answers why you’re talking to those prospects and what value you’re bringing to them. Without a plan, you’re reacting instead of executing. You’re chasing leads instead of building a pipeline.

If you’re a small company—perhaps under $30 million in revenue—and selling into a national market, chances are your market potential is hundreds of millions, maybe billions. That means your market share is a rounding error, which means there’s room to grow. The question is: Are you operating in a way that allows you to capture that growth?

Even if you’re running lean, you should benchmark your performance against top-tier organizations. Not because you’re competing with them directly, but because they set the standard. What are they doing that you’re not? Where are they more efficient? How do they structure their teams? You’re leaving money on the table if you’re not asking those questions.

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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Know Your Numbers: A Sales Leader’s Guide to Growth Metrics – E132

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Know Your Numbers: A Sales Leader’s Guide to Growth Metrics – E132

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

As Q2 kicks into full gear, it’s time to pause and reflect—are you ahead, on pace, or falling behind on your sales targets? In this insightful episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey unpack one of a sales leader’s most crucial yet often overlooked responsibilities: knowing your numbers. With equal parts practical advice and strategic vision, this conversation walks you through the foundational metrics every sales leader should track—customer acquisition cost, average transaction size, support staffing ratios, and more. Whether you’re forecasting growth, scaling headcount, or simply trying to stay ahead of the competition, this episode is your playbook for building a metrics-driven sales organization that thrives.

Key Topics Discussed

  • Why “Keeping Score” Matters in Sales Leadership (00:00)
    Kevin kicks off the episode with a strong analogy to competitive sports, emphasizing that tracking performance metrics is non-negotiable for sales leaders aiming to grow.
  • Building a Forward-Looking Sales Metrics Matrix (00:01)
    Kevin walks through how to build a simple but powerful matrix using transaction volume, average deal size, and headcount to visualize both current performance and future goals.
  • Calculating Average Transaction Size and Quota Coverage (00:02)
    Learn how to reverse-engineer quota achievement by dividing sales goals by average transaction size to determine activity targets for your team.
  • Understanding Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC) (00:05)
    Sean breaks down the components of CAC and explains why every sales leader must know this figure to scale sustainably and profitably.
  • Debunking the “Geopolitics Are Killing Sales” Excuse (00:09)
    Sean challenges the notion that global events are valid reasons for missed quotas, reinforcing that internal execution and strategic clarity are what really matter.
  • Aligning Sales Activity with Strategic Growth Goals (00:12)
    Kevin closes the episode with a systems-thinking approach to leadership, showing how small adjustments in metrics, team development, and compensation can drive exponential growth.

Key Quotes

Kevin Lawson: “Keeping score is important. Really important. I’m talking like March Madness. Final game. Important.” (00:00)

Sean O’Shaughnessey: “If it takes you more than 20 minutes to figure out this information, then you need a better bookkeeping system.” (00:06)

Sean O’Shaughnessey: “You need to know what your average deal size is. You need to know how long it takes you to get a customer. Your CRM should be solving that.” (00:07)

Kevin Lawson: “We want to gently steer our company towards our goals. So the thinking about this process is all about knowing your numbers.” (00:12)

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Build Your Sales Metrics Matrix This Week
Start with your annual revenue goal. Break it down by the number of salespeople, average transaction value, and number of transactions needed per rep per month. Then layer in your customer acquisition cost, support staffing ratios, and expected margin. This matrix becomes your roadmap for scaling intelligently—whether you’re doubling headcount, expanding territory, or just trying to hit a consistent quota.

Episode Summary

In a world of uncertainty, Two Tall Guys Talking Sales reminds us that clarity comes from data. Kevin and Sean deliver a compelling, no-nonsense discussion about how to take control of your revenue engine by genuinely understanding the math behind your sales motion. Whether you’re a CEO, VP of Sales, or just starting to lead a team, this episode offers an essential primer on aligning your operations to your goals. Don’t miss this one—it might be the wake-up call your spreadsheet has been waiting for.

👉 Hit play now to future-proof your sales strategy by learning how to know your numbers like a pro.

Level Up Your Sales Prospecting with Advanced Research Techniques

Level Up Your Sales Prospecting with Advanced Research Techniques

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

A shoutout to Chris Spanier and Episode #85 of the Practical, Actionable Marketing Podcast

Sales prospecting has always been a grind. What if you could cut your research time in half and dramatically improve your outreach results?

In Episode #85 of the Practical, Actionable Marketing podcast, host Chris Spanier delivers a masterclass on how to do just that. Titled “Advanced Prospecting Research Tools,” the episode is packed with time-saving techniques and tools that help sales professionals build sharper prospect profiles faster.

As someone with over four decades in sales and sales management, I believe this kind of tactical insight makes a difference. If you haven’t already, listen to the episode. Then, come back here for a quick breakdown of what Chris covered—plus a few of my thoughts.

Why Prospect Research Matters More Than Ever

In a market saturated with sales messages, relevance is your only competitive advantage. The days of blasting generic emails to massive lists are over. Today, the winners are the ones who personalize their outreach with precision—and that begins with better research.

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Why Cold Calling is Dead: The Shift to Relationship-Based Selling

Why Cold Calling is Dead: The Shift to Relationship-Based Selling

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Building an effective sales pipeline requires a shift in strategy. Traditional cold calling has become increasingly ineffective, with decision-makers ignoring unsolicited calls and emails.

In the spring of 2021, Bank of America Corp.’s Merrill Lynch Wealth Management unit banned trainee brokers from making cold calls. According to the Wall Street Journal, it is hard to succeed with cold phone calls in an era when no one picks up. Merrill executives said personal referrals lead to a response around 40% of the time, but less than 2% of people who are cold-called even answer the phone.

Sales teams must adopt a more strategic approach, focusing on relationships rather than volume-based outreach. The key is leveraging existing networks to create warm introductions, significantly improving engagement rates and overall success.

Cold outreach has become expensive and inefficient, and the time spent dialing numbers, leaving voicemails, and sending emails that never get opened results in diminishing returns. Many executives no longer answer unknown calls, and email filters automatically sort cold outreach into spam. Even when messages get through, recipients are skeptical, assuming they are generated by automation rather than a genuine human connection. In reality, sales professionals must find a better way to reach their target audience.

Relationship-based selling offers a more effective alternative. Salespeople should focus on leveraging their connections instead of reaching out to strangers. This approach involves identifying key contacts who can provide warm introductions to potential prospects. These “super connectors” are individuals with strong networks and the ability to facilitate meaningful introductions. By tapping into these relationships, sales teams can bypass the skepticism associated with cold outreach and start conversations with credibility.

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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Fixing the Funnel – Building a Sales Pipeline That Actually Works – E130

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Fixing the Funnel – Building a Sales Pipeline That Actually Works – E130

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Welcome back to Two Tall Guys Talking Sales with hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey. In this episode, the tall guys dive deep into one of the most critical yet commonly broken elements in any sales organization: the sales funnel. Whether you’re stuck with a clunky three-stage process that tells you nothing or overwhelmed with 35 micro-stages that only confuse your reps, Sean and Kevin offer a practical guide to rethinking and rebuilding your pipeline strategy. Packed with metaphors (yes, even superhero ones) and sharp analysis, this episode will leave you inspired to take a hard look at your funnel—and finally fix it.


Key Topics Discussed

  • Why Most Sales Funnels Are Broken (00:00:45)
    Sean unpacks the common pitfalls in how companies define and manage their sales stages, including oversimplified or overly complex CRM setups.
  • Defining Sales Stages Based on the Buyer Journey (00:04:30)
    Kevin emphasizes the need to align your sales stages with how buyers actually buy—not how your company wants to sell.
  • How Many Sales Stages Are Too Many? (00:05:00)
    The guys explore the delicate balance between not enough insight and too much complexity in stage design.
  • The Case for Multiple Pipelines (00:08:00)
    When does it make sense to separate budgetary planning pipelines from active sales discussions? Kevin and Sean explain.
  • What a Healthy Funnel Actually Looks Like (00:10:45)
    Sean introduces a visual and mathematical approach to evaluating whether your funnel is properly shaped—and what to do if it’s not.


Key Quotes

“The Avengers became a team, not just Iron Man. You need to have a team. Even superhero salespeople like to have support.”
— Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:02:50)

“Fixing the funnel starts visually. Does it fit well on one sheet of paper? If not, you’ve already lost the battle for clarity.”
— Kevin Lawson (00:04:45)

“Stages should be built to qualify someone into the next step—not just to log an activity. Every transition should represent progress, not busyness.”
— Kevin Lawson (00:06:15)

“If your pipeline doesn’t look like a funnel, then you’re either wasting time or losing deals. Probably both.”
— Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:12:20)

Additional Resources Referenced

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Audit Your Sales Funnel for Shape and Stage Effectiveness
Pull a report from your CRM and visualize your current pipeline by number of deals and total revenue per stage. Does it actually look like a funnel? If it doesn’t, dig deeper. Are your stages aligned with your buyer’s journey? Are reps stuck in certain stages too long? This snapshot identifies gaps and opportunities for stage redefinition or activity refinement.

Summary

Whether managing a sales team or closing deals yourself, this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales gives you the blueprint to diagnose and repair a misaligned funnel. Sean and Kevin combine humor, hard truths, and highly actionable insights to help you bring structure and sanity back to your sales process. If you’re ready to create a pipeline that reflects how buyers buy—and helps your team win more deals—this episode is a must-listen.

🎧 Listen now and take the first step in fixing your funnel for good.