scalable sales process

In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey sit down with John Spencer, a seasoned sales leader and founder of Clear Direction Sales Development. Together, they explore the crucial differences between growth and scale, particularly in organizations leaning too heavily on a superstar seller. If you’re leading a sales organization that relies on one standout performer—or trying to replicate success across your sales team—this is a must-listen conversation packed with real-world examples and hard-earned wisdom. The trio unpacks why scalable sales processes and strong business acumen matter far more than a single heroic quota-crusher and how to transform your entire team into a consistent revenue-generation engine.

Key Topics Discussed

[00:01:20] The difference between growth and scale—and why one without the other creates risk
[00:02:30] How over-reliance on a “super seller” can mask weak sales infrastructure
[00:04:00] Why building a team of B players can be the key to sales success and organizational growth
[00:06:00] Why your people strategy outweighs even the best sales tech or product
[00:09:00] How aligning your company around Ideal Customer Profiles (ICPs) and value selling accelerates performance
[00:11:00] Inspiring second-tier sellers to level up—and the systems that make that possible

Key Quotes

Kevin Lawson [00:00:00]: “What do you do when you’ve got a standout salesperson and you’re trying to scale? Today’s the day to take notes and learn from best practices—and avoid the ones that put you in a bind.”
John Spencer [00:01:50]: “Growth is often just out-hustling the competition. Scale is when your sales management creates repeatable success across the team.”
Sean O’Shaughnessey [00:04:00]: “You can’t build a company on nothing but A players. You need B players who can perform with strong sales processes—that’s how you truly scale.”
John Spencer [00:07:24]: “When one salesperson becomes the center of gravity, the whole company starts working for them. That doesn’t scale.”
John Spencer [00:10:08]: “Let’s align the organization to help the salesperson like they’re a mini-CEO. That’s how we build momentum and create sustainable revenue management.”

Additional Resources

Connect with John Spencer: LinkedIn Profile – John Spencer (https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnspencerinc/)
Company: Clear Direction Sales Development
Contact: Direct phone, email, and Calendly available on John’s LinkedIn

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Stop idolizing your top seller—start systematizing their success.
Identify what makes your A player successful, then document and distribute that knowledge across your sales organization. Build a repeatable process that supports B players in becoming high performers. Use Ideal Customer Profiles (ICPs), clear value propositions, and structured onboarding to reduce variance and elevate the middle 60% of your team.

Why You Should Listen to This Episode

If your company is stuck in a “hero model” of selling—where success depends on a single superstar—this episode will open your eyes to what’s truly holding your sales strategy back. With practical insights on aligning your team, refining your messaging, and unlocking scalable revenue generation, John Spencer joins Kevin and Sean in a candid conversation that blends military-grade leadership with sales precision. Whether you’re a CEO, VP of Sales, or just trying to level up your sales team, this episode is your blueprint for transitioning from hustle-based growth to process-driven scale. Don’t miss it—press play and rethink what it means to grow.

You’ll eventually hit a wall if you’re running a sales organization—or wearing multiple hats as founder, CEO, and sales manager. That wall is often invisible until growth stalls, key deals slip through the cracks, or your top salesperson burns out. So, what’s the next move? It’s not more hustle. It’s assessment.

A sales assessment isn’t about checking boxes. It’s about understanding where you are, how you operate, and what’s holding you back. Too many small business leaders assume they’re doing fine because revenue is growing or the team is hitting their quotas. But are you growing at the rate your market allows? Are your sales activities aligned with your long-term goals? Are you building a repeatable system, or are you just getting lucky?

Let’s get tactical. A sales plan isn’t just a revenue target. It’s your go-to-market strategy. It defines your audience, your message, and your motion. It answers why you’re talking to those prospects and what value you’re bringing to them. Without a plan, you’re reacting instead of executing. You’re chasing leads instead of building a pipeline.

If you’re a small company—perhaps under $30 million in revenue—and selling into a national market, chances are your market potential is hundreds of millions, maybe billions. That means your market share is a rounding error, which means there’s room to grow. The question is: Are you operating in a way that allows you to capture that growth?

Even if you’re running lean, you should benchmark your performance against top-tier organizations. Not because you’re competing with them directly, but because they set the standard. What are they doing that you’re not? Where are they more efficient? How do they structure their teams? You’re leaving money on the table if you’re not asking those questions.

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