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What An MBA Didn’t Teach You About Sales

The sales profession is challenging. You need to work hard at it to succeed. You need to learn from the best. You need to improve your skills continuously. If you think you can sell since you are a hit at parties and have a lot of friends, you may soon find that you are a failure as a salesperson. Blunt truth:

because the sales profession is so hard, you have to focus on doing everything in sales very well, or you will be considered a failure.

I call this blog, Skinned Knees because I try to relate all of the learning that I have done over the past 4+ decades (while skinning my knees in the learning process).

I hope that you learn from my mistakes so that your business will grow!

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – What Got You Here Won’t Get You There: How Sales Leaders Master the Pivot for Revenue Growth – Episode 158

In this episode, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey tackle one of the most fundamental truths in business and sales leadership: change is inevitable. Whether you’re managing a sales team, scaling from $5M to $50M, or repositioning your company for new markets, your success depends on your ability to pivot,  intelligently, decisively, and confidently. Sean and Kevin unpack the concept of organizational pivots through real-world examples, from manufacturing supply challenges to Domino’s Pizza’s legendary turnaround, and offer practical advice for how sales leaders can prepare their teams to thrive through transformation.

Key Topics Discussed

  • The Only Constant Is Change (00:16) — Why modern business demands leaders who can adapt and guide teams through shifting markets.
  • The Power of the Pivot (02:52) — Kevin explains what a pivot really means and how small, consistent course corrections can transform outcomes.
  • Real-World Example: Domino’s Pizza Reinvention (06:10) — A masterclass in transparency and messaging that rebuilt a brand from the ground up.
  • Training as the Foundation of Change (09:21) — Sean breaks down how strategic training helps sales teams pivot effectively into new markets or industries.
  • Peer Learning and the Role of Community (12:33) — The importance of collaboration, conversation, and communities like the B2B Sales Lab for accelerating sales success.

Key Quotes

  • “As CEOs and sales leaders, we have to lead through change. What got us here is not going to get us there.”
    — Sean O’Shaughnessey (01:34)
  • “Sometimes people don’t need a 180-degree pivot. They just need to be repointed — one degree of change over time can take you somewhere entirely new.”
    — Kevin Lawson (04:42)
  • “The first part of making a pivot is planting your foot — and that’s training. You can’t change direction until your team knows how.”
    — Sean O’Shaughnessey (11:22)

Additional Resources

  • Book Mentioned: Who Moved My Cheese? by Spencer Johnson — A timeless read on navigating change in business and life. https://a.co/d/cCEXuwA
  • Community Resource: B2B Sales Lab — A peer-driven community for B2B sales professionals and leaders to exchange ideas, test messaging, and sharpen their skills. www.b2b-sales-lab.com

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Before the day ends, write down five things you could do to change the trajectory of your sales growth or turnaround.
Then, rank them:

  • Which are big strategic plays?
  • Which are medium-term moves?
  • Which are quick wins you could execute immediately? Assign probability, effort, and impact to each, then commit to one action this week. Leadership begins with deliberate motion, not massive overhauls.
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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – The First 90 Days as a Sales Leader: Proven Strategies for Sales Management Success – Episode 157

When a company hires or promotes its first sales manager, expectations run high, but clarity can be low. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Sean O’Shaughnessey and Kevin Lawson unpack what the first 90 days should look like for a new sales leader. Whether you’re a CEO onboarding a new manager or that manager stepping into the role themselves, this discussion provides practical guidance on setting realistic expectations, building trust, and establishing the foundation for long-term sales success and revenue growth.

Key Topics Discussed

  • Setting Realistic Expectations as an Owner (02:00)
    Kevin explores how CEOs should frame success during the first 90 days, emphasizing the importance of patience, trust-building, and understanding that sales management transformation takes time.
  • Avoiding the “Fix This First” Trap (06:30)
    Sean cautions business owners against dumping old personnel problems on new leaders, explaining why cleaning up someone else’s mess undermines early business acumen and trust.
  • Building Relationships and Learning the Business (08:30)
    Sean shares tactical advice for new sales managers: conduct one-on-ones, ride along with reps, and build rapport across departments, marketing, operations, and finance, to master internal sales processes and interdepartmental alignment.
  • Understanding Internal and External Tools (11:12)
    Kevin discusses discovering hidden tools and levers, people, systems, vendor programs, or product configurations that can immediately improve team performance and value-selling opportunities.
  • Repackaging and Aligning Offers to the Market (12:30)
    The hosts outline how sales leaders can rethink product structures and messaging to better serve customer needs, thereby improving revenue management and profitability.

Key Quotes

  • “Trust is a currency. It has to be earned by customers, by salespeople, by peers, and you can’t buy it in the first 30 days.”,  Kevin Lawson (03:00)
  • “Don’t make your new sales leader the bad guy. If there’s a tough personnel decision, handle it before they start.”,  Sean O’Shaughnessey (07:00)
  • “Learn your company inside and out. If you don’t know who runs manufacturing or how the supply chain works, you can’t lead your salespeople effectively.”,  Sean O’Shaughnessey (10:00)
  • “You might have 20 products, but 100 possible solutions. The smart leader finds ways to repackage and sell in ways the customer actually values.”,  Kevin Lawson (13:00)

Additional Resources

  • Episodes on sales onboarding, marketing alignment, and ideal customer profiling (ICP) were referenced throughout the conversation.
  • Explore more insights and tools for sales leaders at b2b-sales-lab.com.

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Create a 90-Day Integration Plan.
If you’re a new sales manager, spend your first month listening and learning. Conduct one-on-ones with every salesperson, schedule cross-department meetings, and document what each function needs from sales. In the second month, identify process gaps and start designing improvements. By the third month, implement one or two visible wins, such as improving forecasting accuracy or clarifying sales messaging, to demonstrate value and build momentum.

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Automating Sales Workflows: When to Use Automation Over Chat

In sales management, there’s often some confusion about when to use artificial intelligence chat interfaces versus automation workflows. Chat interfaces are ideal for creative problem-solving, learning, and strategic research, while automation excels in repetitive, high-volume, data-driven sales tasks. The trick is to recognize when consistency and scalability are more important than customization.

Automation delivers consistent execution, eliminates human error, and operates 24/7. Sales leaders can rely on it for triggered communications, data synchronization across systems, CRM updates, and compliance tasks that require accuracy and complete audit trails. By moving these routine tasks into automated workflows, sales teams free up valuable time for relationship building, revenue generation, and refining sales strategies.

Real-world examples highlight the impact: a team once spent three hours daily crafting manual follow-up emails. Shifting to automated sequences not only saved time but also improved messaging consistency and pipeline response rates. Similarly, another team utilized automation to synchronize sales data across six systems, thereby eliminating bottlenecks and enabling sellers to focus fully on sales.

Hybrid approaches really take things to the next level! By merging human creativity in chat interactions with the quick and precise power of automation, businesses can craft workflows that beautifully balance personalized service with the ability to grow. This type of teamwork enhances value-driven selling, sharpens business skills, and accelerates revenue management throughout the sales journey.

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From 10 to 100 Customers: Scaling Your Sales Process for Growth

For founders of companies, the journey of a business is a narrative of evolution, growth, and constant adaptation. As salespeople, sales managers, and CEOs, we are all too familiar with the challenges and triumphs that punctuate this journey. In the world of sales, one of the most critical turning points is the transition from acquiring your first ten customers to expanding your customer base to 50 or even 100. This pivotal moment sets the trajectory of a business and is a key focus of our discussion.

When you’re starting, the founding team is focused on acquiring those first ten customers. They’re trying to find their footing in the market, identify their target audience, and refine their product or service offering. You might be customizing your product or service for each customer to ensure it fits their specific needs. However, as you aim for the next level of growth, it’s crucial to start thinking about systemizing your sales process. This will ensure efficiency and prepare you for the next level of growth. 

To scale effectively, company leaders need to standardize their product or service offering. While customization can be beneficial in the early stages, it becomes impractical and inefficient as your customer base grows. The key here is to create a product or service that can be sold repeatedly with minimal adjustments. This streamlines the sales process, making it easier for others to sell the product or service.

In the early stages of a business, the founders might be the ones doing all the selling. But as the company grows, this becomes less feasible. To reach a larger number of customers, you need to bring others on board to sell for you. This is where standardization comes into play. By standardizing your product or service, you make it easier for others to understand and sell it. 

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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – How Sales and Marketing Partnerships Drive Lead Generation and Sales Success – Episode 155

As the year draws to a close, sales leaders and professionals are already looking ahead to the next year. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Sean O’Shaughnessey and Kevin Lawson dig into the perennial challenge of lead generation, the importance of collaborating with marketing, and why proactive planning is essential for sales success. From refining your messaging to building thought leadership, this conversation is packed with strategies to help you drive revenue generation and sharpen your sales processes.

Key Topics Discussed

  • Why Salespeople Always Say “I Need More Leads” (01:00)
  • The Importance of Partnering with Marketing for Effective Sales Strategies (03:40)
  • Going Beyond Marketing—Referrals, Networking, and Thought Leadership (05:07)
  • Leveraging LinkedIn and Personal Branding to Generate Leads (06:25)
  • The Three Things Every Salesperson Really Sells (09:00)
  • Planning with Intention: Mapping the Next 12 Months for Sales Success (12:57)

Key Quotes

  • Sean O’Shaughnessey (01:48): “You as a salesperson… it’s your job to sit with the marketing people you have and map out the next 12 months of how to get better leads and cover your territory more effectively.”
  • Kevin Lawson (03:40): “Go down the hallway, knock on the door and say, here’s what I’m working on, what are you working on, and how can I help? Be a resource, be a partner to marketing.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey (09:24): “There are three things you sell: your product, your company, and—most importantly—you.”
  • Kevin Lawson (13:16): “If you’re only giving 50% effort to your professional practice, you can’t expect championship-level results.”

Additional Resources

  • B2B Sales Lab Community – A peer group for sales professionals to exchange best practices and strengthen their sales management and revenue generation capabilities. Go to https://b2b-sales-lab.com/

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Schedule a working session with your marketing team this week. Map out the next 12 months of sales and marketing activities, focusing on how you’ll generate leads, build messaging, and increase visibility in your target accounts. Even if it starts with a simple spreadsheet, writing down the plan creates accountability and aligns sales strategies with marketing efforts.

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Transform Your Sales Team: Strategic Compensation Adjustments for Year-End Momentum

Autumn is the time of year for sales leaders, managers, and CEOs to begin laying the groundwork for next year’s success. Have you considered how your current sales compensation plans impact your team’s motivation and productivity? Now is the ideal moment to evaluate, adjust, and deliver these plans, preferably by December 1st. Doing so can significantly influence your team’s drive to close deals in December and build momentum heading into the next fiscal year.

Sales compensation should be motivating and rewarding for employees. It directly shapes your sales team’s behaviors and priorities. An effective plan incentivizes the right actions and deters the wrong ones.

Consider a common pitfall: salespeople holding back deals to inflate their numbers for the following year. Does your current compensation structure inadvertently reward this practice? If so, you’re unintentionally harming your year-end results.

To counter this, strategically incorporate compensation escalators and cliffs into your plan. Escalators progressively reward increased sales performance throughout the year. Higher performance equals higher commission rates, driving your sales team to push forward continually. 

Commission cliffs reset commission rates at the beginning of each year, creating a sense of urgency to close deals before the end of December. Communicating these compensation details clearly by early December ensures your team understands what’s at stake.

Don’t hold your team back!

Another critical compensation consideration is eliminating commission caps. While some organizations cap commissions to control expenses, this practice can backfire dramatically. Caps tell your top-performing salespeople that their exceptional efforts are neither valued nor rewarded appropriately. This demotivates your top talent and encourages them to seek opportunities elsewhere that offer uncapped rewards. 

Removing commission caps signals that the organization fully supports and rewards outstanding performance. Have you considered how much growth your company might achieve if artificial constraints didn’t limit your sales team?

When evaluating compensation, look beyond simple cost containment. Consider the true profitability of incentivizing increased sales volume. Once salespeople reach their targets and enter accelerators, each additional dollar earned typically comes at a lower incremental cost to your organization. 

Sales transactions earlier in the year have already covered the salesperson’s base salary once they have met their annual quota. In fact, at 100% of quota, the salesperson should have covered all their costs and their share of the overall company’s revenue needs. Thus, every extra sale at escalated commission rates still contributes positively to your overall profitability. 

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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – From Comp Plans to Territory Alignment: Sales Strategies Every Leader Needs for Revenue Generation – Episode 153

As the year draws to a close, sales leaders and business owners face a critical challenge: preparing for growth in the year ahead. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive deep into sales management strategies that set the stage for long-term sales success. From refining compensation plans and aligning territories to planning product lifecycles and avoiding the dreaded “hockey stick” growth trap, this conversation is packed with insights on business acumen, value selling, and revenue generation strategies that every sales leader should master.

Key Topics Discussed

  • 01:00 – Planning Beyond This Year: Why sales leaders need to start preparing now for next year’s revenue generation and sales processes.
  • 02:11 – Building Smarter Compensation Plans: Evaluating and refining comp structures to drive sales success and attract top talent.
  • 03:13 – Product Lifecycle & AI Readiness: How shifts in markets and technology demand updates to your offerings and messaging.
  • 05:00 – Departmental Alignment for Growth: Understanding how revenue management and sales growth affect every department in your business.
  • 07:12 – Right People, Right Roles: Assessing whether your sales team is positioned for success in the next stage of your growth plan.
  • 11:20 – Avoiding the “Hockey Stick” Trap: Why spreading growth evenly across years is a better long-term sales strategy.

Key Quotes

  • Sean O’Shaughnessey (01:07): “If I asked you to write out your three-year plan, next year already knocks off the first year. Are you one-third of the way there, or do you need to rethink your path?”
  • Kevin Lawson (02:33): “Be planning ahead. Compensation plans aren’t a set-and-forget item—you need to revisit them every year to make sure they’re delivering the right results.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey (07:59): “Do I have the right people in the right place in my sales organization for next year? Not every salesperson has to leave, but maybe their role needs to evolve.”
  • Kevin Lawson (11:38): “You don’t want that third year of your plan to be a hockey stick. Don’t put yourself in a position where you suddenly need 40% growth in one year to hit your goals.”

Additional Resources

  • B2B Sales Lab: A peer community for sales leaders and professionals to sharpen strategies, exchange best practices, and get actionable feedback.
  • EOS Framework: For leaders who want to align messaging, sales strategies, and revenue management with long-term goals.

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Review and finalize your sales compensation plans by December 1st. This gives your team enough time to digest changes, ask questions, and align their sales strategies before the new year begins. Waiting until January leaves your salespeople unprepared, which can delay revenue generation and momentum.

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AI Isn’t Replacing Salespeople, It’s Giving Them a Competitive Edge

AI isn’t replacing salespeople, it’s making them more effective. The real risk isn’t losing your job to AI; it’s losing to a competitor who uses AI better than you do. Sales professionals who integrate AI into their workflow will outperform those who don’t. 

It’s not about technology taking over but about using technology to gain an edge. The market is becoming increasingly competitive, and the most efficient salespeople will emerge victorious.

Time is a salesperson’s most valuable asset. 

Every minute spent on administrative tasks is a minute not spent selling. AI helps reclaim those lost hours. Tools that automate writing, scheduling, and research allow salespeople to focus on what matters: building relationships and closing deals. If you’re not leveraging AI to increase productivity, you’re leaving opportunities on the table.

Sales emails need to be clear and professional. AI-powered writing assistants ensure your messages are polished and effective. A poorly written email can cost you a deal. AI tools catch grammatical mistakes, improve clarity, and even suggest more effective phrasing. This isn’t just about looking professional; it’s about being understood. 

If your message isn’t clear, it won’t convert.

Presentations are another time-consuming task. AI can generate professional decks in minutes. Instead of spending hours designing slides, salespeople can focus on developing effective strategies. AI-powered tools create branded, structured presentations based on simple inputs. This ensures consistency while saving time. Sales professionals who utilize AI for presentations can focus on delivering insights rather than formatting slides.

CRM systems are the backbone of sales operations. AI enhances CRM by automating data entry, tracking customer interactions, and suggesting next steps. Salespeople often struggle with keeping CRM data updated. AI reduces this friction by automatically capturing and organizing information. A well-maintained CRM leads to better forecasting and stronger customer relationships. 

If your CRM doesn’t have AI capabilities, it’s time to upgrade.

AI-driven insights enable sales managers to make more informed decisions, rather than relying on instinct. Managers can use AI to analyze performance trends, identify coaching opportunities, and predict revenue outcomes. AI doesn’t replace leadership; it enhances it. 

Sales managers who adopt AI can build stronger teams and achieve better results. Ignoring AI in sales management is a strategic mistake.

Lead generation is another area where AI adds value. AI-powered tools can analyze vast amounts of data to identify high-potential prospects. Instead of spending hours researching leads, salespeople can receive AI-generated recommendations. This allows for more targeted outreach and higher conversion rates. AI doesn’t just find leads, it finds the right leads.

Sales follow-up is often inconsistent. AI ensures follow-ups happen at the right time with the right message. Automated reminders and AI-generated responses keep deals moving forward. 

A well-timed follow-up can be the difference between closing a deal and losing it. AI helps salespeople stay on top of their pipeline without relying on memory.

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From Manual to Automated: A Sales Pro’s Guide to Zapier, Make.com, n8n, and Pipedream

A sales manager recently told me something that stuck: “We went from twenty hours per week of manual work to two hours. Our lead response time dropped from four hours to four minutes.” That dramatic transformation wasn’t magic—it was automation. The reality is that sales teams today have more automation tools available than ever before. But with options like Zapier, Make.com, n8n, and Pipedream, the real challenge isn’t whether you should automate—it’s choosing the right… 

Transforming Quota-Setting: Strategies for Sales Leaders to Optimize Performance and Revenue

Quota-setting is one of the most misunderstood elements of sales leadership. Too often, it’s treated as a spreadsheet exercise or a top-down directive, rather than a strategic lever that drives behavior, performance, and growth.

Whether you’re leading a team of 20 or you’re the founder managing three reps, how you define quotas has a direct impact on your revenue trajectory and your team’s motivation.

So, where do you start?

With timing. If you’re not delivering quotas to your team until February or March, you’re already behind. Salespeople need clarity by December. That gives them runway to plan, prioritize, and hit the ground running in January. Delayed quotas create confusion and stall momentum. To achieve a strong Q1, you need to equip your team early.

Quota-setting varies depending on the size of your company. Larger teams offer more flexibility. With 10 or more reps, you can spread risk, balance performance, and model averages. You’ll have top performers who consistently overdeliver, alongside newer reps who are still ramping up. The law of averages works in your favor. You can afford some variance. Smaller teams don’t have that luxury.

When you’re running a small team, maybe two or three reps or founder-led sales, every individual matters. One person missing quota can tank your number.

You can’t rely on averages. You need precision.

That means tying quotas to actual relationships, known opportunities, and real probability. It’s not about slicing up a target evenly. It’s about assigning numbers based on what’s realistically achievable in each territory or account list.

Territory design plays a big role here. Whether it’s geographic, vertical, or named accounts, quota must reflect the market potential. You can’t expect equal performance from unequal opportunity. If Rep A has 500 viable accounts and Rep B has 50, their quotas shouldn’t look the same unless you have data that says Rep B’s accounts are closer to your Ideal Client Profile. Use available market data to inform the number. Don’t assign quotas in a vacuum. 

In larger organizations, quotas often originate from the top down, typically from finance. The CEO and CFO commit a growth number to the board, investors, or in public filings to the SEC. They have no choice but to pass it down. It’s not uncommon for the sales team to receive the number without context. That’s a problem. If you’re in a leadership role, you need to pressure test that number. Can your team realistically hit it? If not, what additional resources are required?

  • More headcount?
  • Better enablement?
  • Marketing support?

In large organizations where the quota is driven by investor expectations, the VP of Sales must establish an organization well before the new year that achieves this year’s goal, while also meeting the expectation of growth for the next year. Planning ahead, sometimes years in advance, is part of the job.

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