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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales Podcast – Empowered by ESOP: Enhancing Sales Management in Employee-Owned Firms with Wisdom by Marc Metz – E83

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales Podcast – Empowered by ESOP: Enhancing Sales Management in Employee-Owned Firms with Wisdom by Marc Metz – E83

In this enlightening episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey continue their engaging dialogue with Marc Metz, a seasoned expert in the sales and business transition arena. Building on the momentum of their previous conversation, they delve into the intricacies of transitioning a business through an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP). Marc shares firsthand experiences and practical insights, making this a must-listen for business owners contemplating a transition that rewards employees and preserves the company’s legacy.

Key Topics Discussed

  • The ESOP Transition Model: An exploration of the ESOP as a unique strategy for business transition, focusing on its structure, benefits, and challenges. Marc shares a compelling case study of a construction company making this significant shift.
  • Management and Structural Challenges: Discusses the critical need for a clear management structure post-transition, emphasizing the importance of placing the right people in the right positions and avoiding the pitfalls of rapid corporatization.
  • Preparation and Strategy: Offers valuable advice on preparing for an ESOP transition, including the slow and deliberate evaluation of candidates for leadership roles within the new ownership structure.
  • Sales Team Dynamics Post-Transition: Examines the sales team’s role during and after the transition to employee ownership, highlighting strategies to rejuvenate and realign sales efforts with the company’s new direction.

Key Quotes

  • Kevin: “It’s interesting that we talk about helping people avoid landmines. So Sean and I use a lot of our past experience to talk about where we skinned our knees so that others don’t have to.”
  • Sean: “I’m a big believer in three salespeople become four, four become five, five becomes six. And you use that existing run rate that you got from the first three, first four, first five to pay for that next one. And you grow profitably by doing that.”
  • Marc: “Go slow. I’ll tell you one thing is if the owner can do it three to five years before they’re actually ready to sell, it’s going to provide dividends to them and they’re going to have a better multiple more money in their pocket.”

Additional Resources

  • Traction by Gino Wickman: Recommended reading for listeners interested in understanding the EOS model and the GWC concept (Get it, Want it, Capacity to do it) that Marc references during the discussion.


For any business owner pondering the path to employee ownership, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge, cautionary tales, and strategic advice. Through Marc Metz’s experienced lens, listeners gain an understanding of the ESOP model’s complexities, the importance of careful planning and execution, and the pivotal role of sales leadership in navigating a business’s transition. Whether you’re in the early stages of considering an ESOP or looking to optimize your sales team post-transition, this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales is invaluable. Tune in to equip yourself with the insights needed to ensure a smooth and successful transition to employee ownership.

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