Welcome to another riveting episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales with your dynamic hosts, Sean O’Shaughnessey and Kevin Lawson. In this episode, our duo takes on a subject that stirs strong emotions in the sales world: micromanagement. With a combined experience of several decades in sales, Sean and Kevin delve into their philosophies, personal experiences, and provide actionable insights on transitioning from micromanagement to effective leadership. Whether you’re a salesperson, a manager, or a business leader, you’re going to find value in their candid conversation.
Key Topics Discussed:
Micromanagement in Sales: Sean’s personal aversion to micromanagement, his challenges, and how he navigated them during his 38-year career.
Transitioning from Micromanaging to Leadership: Kevin’s insights into the delicate balance between engaging the team and inadvertently falling into micromanagement.
Differentiating Between Green and Seasoned Salespeople: How to manage new salespeople who need structure versus seasoned reps who require trust.
The Importance of Trust in a Sales Team: Bad examples of trust violations and the cultivation of a culture of trust within the sales organization.
Becoming a Leader: Strategies and practical advice for transitioning from a micromanager to a leader, and the value it brings to the sales culture.
Key Quotes:
Sean: “I despised anybody who was going to drive me day to day, ask me every single thing, question every single deal just didn’t fit well with my personality.”
Kevin: “How can I help? That’s how the shift comes in my mind from a micromanager to an effective leader. Instead of asking detail, detail, detail, they’re asking about resource, resource, strategy, that’s the big shift for me.”
In this engaging episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Sean and Kevin don’t just identify the problems associated with micromanagement but provide actionable insights and solutions for how to evolve into an effective leader. Whether you’re just beginning in sales or leading a team, their candid conversation will offer you strategies to avoid micromanagement, build trust within your team, and create a culture of success. Don’t miss this chance to learn from two seasoned sales veterans – tune in to this episode and take your sales leadership skills to the next level!
Bob Robinson, Jr., and his mechanical-engineer father, Bob Robinson, Sr., came up with the idea for a product the world truly needed 25 years ago: a “no-touch” restroom cleaning machine. Their company, Kaivac, is a Hamilton, OH-based manufacturer of cleaning machines. Hamilton is a suburb of Cincinnati, OH.
Bob Robinson, Jr.
“We were on our hands and knees, crawling around the bathroom,” recalls Bob, Jr. “It was disgusting. We said, ‘There’s got to be a better way.'”
Through hard work and dedication, the Robinsons created the KaiVac to help solve that initial problem in public restrooms. Over the years, they grew the idea to create dedicated machines to clean kitchen floors, hallway floors, and grocery displays. Beyond its bathroom cleaning technology, it has expanded into floor cleaning and spill response machines and has 18 patents with 16 pending.
Along with growing their manufacturing capabilities, they also grew their sales capabilities. They adopted a hybrid strategy of selling through distribution and selling directly to key customers. Their direct team, under the leadership of Bob Robinson, Jr., who had taken on the role of VP of Sales, closed many enviable customers with massive deals, including Walmart, Kroger, and Target.
They realized that they needed to step up their sales professionalism after having a down year during COVID after having a record-breaking year the year before. They wanted to grow to $75 million in annual revenue within three years and a Big Hairy Audacious Goal (BHAG) of $1 billion in annual revenue within 20 years.
Bob Jr. says Kaivac is just getting started. “At 20 to 25 years in business, you’re at an inflection point where you’ve got resources, tenure, and history and have been through ‘adolescence,'” he says. “Now is the chance to build a professionalized organization.”
They contacted New Sales Expert LLC as the nation was coming out of the global pandemic, but before all the supply chain problems had paused. New Sales Expert LLC is a fractional vice president of sales consultancy. Sean O’Shaughnessey, the CEO of New Sales Expert, is aligned with SalesXceleration and has 38 years of experience in sales and sales management.
According to Sean, “Kaivac is a joy to work with. They are the shining star of Hamilton, OH, and Butler County. They had so much raw potential when I walked in the door; all I had to do was to focus their energy and enthusiasm on working smarter and just a little harder.”
Building an organization with a heart
Bob Robinson, Sr.
Kaivac had a great culture to build on to make a great sales culture. Before Sean showed up, the company leadership had already developed their One-Page Strategic Plan and their “Why?” statement that reflects the owners’ Christian faith: “To glorify God by using KAIVAC as an instrument for Good.”
In addition to the “Why?” statement, they had drafted an acronym called FIGS that conveys the “heart” of the company. FIGS—which appears on signs that hang on the factory floor and in break rooms—stands for
F: “First shall be last, last shall be first.”
I: Integrity—as in “The truth shall set you free.”
G: Golden Rule—meaning “treat others how you want to be treated.”
S: Servant’s Heart, as in “We are in a race to help people.”
The company uses the first three letters of its name–KAI–to inspire the team’s thinking and actions. These letters stand for inspiring phrases such as: “Keep At It,” “Keep Always Improving,” “Keep Attempting the Impossible,” and “(creates) Kick-Ass Inventions.”
Prioritizing net income and growth
Sean’s first change was to make a compensation plan that motivated the sales team to sell bigger deals and to sell them quickly. Kaivac implemented a 50/50 plan in concert with defined territories to keep the Key Account salespeople focused on the goal of more significant and profitable orders.
After the motivation component was in place, it was time to help the team learn how to sell big deals more repeatedly. The big deals of the past had been challenging to work on and, while very profitable, had been disruptive to close. Sean encouraged the company to read John McMahon’s book, “The Qualified Sales Leader,” and with that tome as inspiration, quickly deployed MEDDPICCC to help them qualify deals.
MEDDPICCC by itself is not enough. The company had already licensed Salesforce, one of the highest-rated CRMs on the market, but Sean put MEDDPICCC into the various stages of the sales process to ensure that the salespeople knew all the required information about a big deal. Sean also created dashboards within Salesforce to track deal progress at the management level. The company implemented Sales Plans for Key Accounts and the Power Matrix to document the most influential people in the customer’s decision-making process.
The very first big deals that the company found after Sean started to help them also benefited from the Decision Timeline. The Decision Timeline is a tool to allow the sales team to walk through the entire decision-making process of the customer to understand all of the steps required to make a significant investment decision. It allowed frank and honest conversations to take place with the prospect as the team worked to close the largest deal in the company’s history to date.
Time to run on their own
Mike Perazzo, Allen Randolph, Bob Robinson, Jr., and Nick Wehby after passing their Certified Sales Leader exams.
As with most of the assignments with New Sales Expert, LLC, the goal is to allow the company to run independently. Bob Robinson Jr. was the company’s VP of Sales. Still, he needed to shed those responsibilities to help run the entire company. To finish the transition, Bob and three of his leaders took SalesXceleration‘s Certified Sales Leadership course delivered by Sean O’Shaughnessey.
The Certified Sales Leader (CSL) designation is the country’s most comprehensive sales leadership certification program offered. CSL leadership training and certification will prepare you with the analytical, tactical, and strategic sales management skills needed to drive revenue growth now…and into the future. CSL training expands the skill set of a Sales Manager by providing coaching, techniques, and tools to lead a successful sales team.
All four Kaivac leaders passed the CSL test. One of them, Mike Perazzo, was tagged to take over as Executive Vice President of Sales. According to Mike, “Sean is a master coach for helping shape sales process and methodology. Following his methods will help grow sales faster, transactionally, and strategically. Often a couple of pieces of the puzzle are missing, and Sean helps quickly identify them.
You have everything to gain by having Sean look at your current approach. He is a change agent and disruptive to the status quo. Pushing the pace and flow of deals is his sweet spot. I am a better sales leader because of my time with him.”
Bob Robinson, Sr., and Jr. with their sales team celebrating a recent patent award
Sean O’Shaughnessey of New Sales Expert, LLC states, “Kaivac is a wonderful company. They have created a line of machines that gives pride to the workers in one of the toughest jobs in America – keeping things clean. They are focused on the success of their customers and their employees. They had all of the raw skills within their sales team to be a great sales organization; they only needed me to focus them on activities and techniques that allowed them to close bigger deals faster and at a higher profit level.”
“If anyone works in a clean building with clean restrooms and hard surface floors, they are either cleaning it with Kaivac technology or paying too much for that cleanliness,” Sean explains.
Revenue and profitability have grown since Sean helped Kaivac develop a higher level of sales professionalism. Recent results have shown a dramatic increase in revenue and profitability. The sales and revenue growth have allowed the entire family of Kaivac to prosper. The Robinsons have always considered their employees an extension of their family. The company’s prosperity is passed along to team members through a bonus structure for the whole company. It all fits into the spirit of Kaivac. Bob Jr. says, “Our organization was built to have heart.”
In this dynamic episode of the “Two Tall Guys Talking Sales” podcast, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey, delve into the importance of strategy in successful sales performance. Using a navigational analogy, the hosts discuss how just like using an app like Waze, successful sales also requires anticipation and understanding of the challenges on the way.
Drawing parallels between navigation and sales, Kevin and Sean underscore the value of proactive strategic planning. From the importance of mapping out the sales process akin to charting a route on a map to responding to unforeseen challenges, just like navigating detours on a road trip, they highlight how a robust strategy can guide salespeople from the starting point to their goals effectively.
Touching on subjects like the sales process, tactics, and mid-year sales strategy, the hosts shed light on the importance of a sales process, likening it to a paper map providing a general path. They discuss how technology today allows for more dynamic navigation, reflecting on how modern sales techniques can help efficiently reach sales targets.
Kevin shares the difference between strategy and tactics, comparing a sales strategy to a commander’s intent in the military, emphasizing that strategies are generally long-term. Sean continues the conversation, sharing how salespeople can be proactive in their strategy, planning in advance for predictable stages in the sales process.
On a practical note, the duo also discusses how sales leaders can help their teams distinguish between strategy, tactics, and to-do items, nurturing their understanding and development in the sales process. Lastly, the hosts touch on the importance of strategic planning for the coming year, even in the middle of the current one.
Listeners are sure to find actionable insights and practical advice in this episode that could help them to formulate effective sales strategies and tactics, streamline their sales processes, and drive their sales performance forward.
In this enlightening episode of “Two Tall Guys Talking Sales,” Sean O’Shaughnessey and Kevin Lawson delve into the fundamental aspect of setting clear expectations in sales, mirroring the way parents do with their children. With mid-year reviews around the corner, it’s time to reflect, analyze, and readjust your sales strategies.
Kevin starts with a compelling anecdote about his childhood bedtime routine to explain the critical importance of clear communication and setting expectations. The duo emphasizes that salespeople and leaders must carry the same burden to ensure success. They then transition into discussing data, people, and customers, shedding light on how they interplay in the sales ecosystem.
Sean broadens the conversation to the art of adaptation and how market changes could necessitate mid-year modifications to sales processes. This aspect is brought into sharp focus with the unprecedented disruptions caused by the Covid-19 pandemic. Both hosts agree on the necessity of data-informed decision-making, underlining the importance of balancing past performance with future potential. They delve into the aspects contributing to understanding a customer’s potential, including market changes and various environmental factors.
Kevin and Sean also touch upon the essentiality of upskilling the sales team, the significance of coaching, and the benefit of taking a hard look at individual performance. The conversation concludes with a detailed discussion on data analysis, with both hosts advocating for leveraging your CRM system for a thorough assessment of your sales process, the documentation, and the distribution of deals.
So, whether you’re a seasoned salesperson or new to the game, this episode is filled with vital insights that you can incorporate into your sales strategy, setting you up for success in the latter half of the year.
As B2B-focused businesses navigate the ever-changing landscape of a post-COVID economy, sales leaders must adopt and institute strategies to meet the demands of a business in growth or recovery mode.
While the goal for a sales organization may be to sustain the growth trajectory aligned with organizational goals, the year-over-year approach to achieving success can vary significantly. Sales leadership styles depend on the current situation, the starting point, and the existing team charged to accomplish the goal. Good sales leaders find a way to achieve the annual goal; great sales leaders find ways to achieve the goal and systemize the process to allow for repeatable growth, pivots, and rapid scale.
Growth Focused Leadership
Sales leaders focused on growth must proactively identify new market opportunities, verticals, geographies, platforms, or sales talent. They must invest in new sales channels and technologies, along with onboarding and training programs to support the growth of their sales teams and the acquisition of new client relationships.
When sales teams are in a breakout stage of growth, it can be challenging to gain the discipline to systems and alignment on processes and approaches due to the nature of managing client expectations on a wildly rising revenue outlook. This situation demands that all of the skills of a sales leader be applied consistently and strategically across the team and sales practices.
Seasoned leaders know that hiring for an increased workload and rapidly scaling teams can be tempting. However, this approach can often lead to problems down the line. Further, we must suppress the desire to hire quickly instead of exercising patience in finding the right candidate to continue to scale teams and culture appropriately. That patience means we must endure the short-term challenges of being under-resourced and under a great deal of pressure to keep performing as if we already had the resources on the team. Instead, it is essential to focus on finding the right candidate who will not only be able to handle the current workload but also contribute to your team’s culture and help your organization achieve long-term success. Take the time to vet candidates carefully and consider not only their skills and experience but also their values and how they fit into your team’s dynamic. By prioritizing quality over speed, you’ll set your team up for success in the long run.
Another important consideration when building a team is to prioritize scalability. It’s easy to get caught up in your organization’s immediate needs and hire for the present moment, but it’s crucial to think about how your team will grow and evolve. Look for candidates with the potential to take on new responsibilities and leadership roles as your organization expands. Consider investing in training and professional development programs to help your team members acquire new skills and stay up-to-date with the latest industry trends. By prioritizing scalability, you’ll be better equipped to adapt to changing business needs and continue to achieve success over the long term.
Discipline to proven systems is essential for leadership and having transparent KPIs and organizational goal communications. The rigor and discipline of a sales leader in a growth cycle are particularly demanding. One primary concern for leaders in this mode is talent loss due to competitive pressures to grab your resources for their growth. It would help if you had experience and discipline for these growth moments.
In this episode of the podcast, Kevin and Sean discuss the necessity for sales leaders to adapt their advice and strategies in today’s ever-changing environment. With the numerous changes and challenges that businesses face daily, sales leaders must constantly evolve and stay ahead of the curve to help their teams succeed.
The discussion touches on how being a trusted advisor to clients is crucial for success regardless of market shifts and economic turmoil. The ability to understand and professionally empathize with clients and their challenges allows salespeople to guide clients and prospects toward solutions effectively. Emphasizing the significance of leading indicators in sales activities and reframing value propositions according to clients’ perspectives is vital.
To achieve enduring success, sales leaders must instill the importance of understanding a prospect’s business, its competitors, and its market value to the sales team. This will ultimately make them trusted advisors to their clients and help them navigate the complex and ever-changing business landscape.
In this podcast episode, Kevin and Sean discuss how to help a top-performing salesperson get through a slump and get back on track. They emphasize the importance of a time-based sales strategy and keeping an eye on the early stages of a sale, such as lead generation and relationship building. They recommend reinforcing the positive aspects of a salesperson’s work and ensuring they follow the right process to build an effective pipeline.
They also suggest an intellectually honest approach to pipeline management to evaluate the pipeline’s health and identify areas that need improvement. This involves looking at close rates and the average time taken to close deals. Moreover, they discuss setting realistic goals for salespeople, focusing on the right activities for the right prospects, and practicing delivering the right message to the target market.
They stress the importance of patience and confidence-building for salespeople in a slump, as well as celebrating successes. Lastly, they highlight the role of a sales leader in supporting their team members rather than taking over their tasks.
In this engaging podcast episode, hosts Kevin and Sean dive into the crucial topic of rewarding effort and results during sales meetings. They emphasize the importance of recognizing salespeople’s achievements through monetary rewards, acknowledgment, and praise. The hosts discuss the impact of consistent processes for catching people doing things right and sharing best practices among sales teams. They also touch upon the idea of self-reward for sales practitioners, encouraging them to celebrate their successes.
Throughout the conversation, Sean and Kevin provide actionable advice and tools for sales leaders to cultivate a positive work environment, ultimately leading to better results. They also highlight the human aspect of sales, acknowledging the challenges that salespeople face daily.
If you’re a sales leader or a sales practitioner looking for valuable insights and strategies to elevate your team’s performance, don’t miss out on this podcast. Subscribe now on your favorite podcast player to stay up-to-date with the latest episodes and learn from industry experts like Kevin and Sean. Happy listening and happy selling!
In this podcast, Tim Warren, CEO of Helium-SEO, discusses his approach to handling difficult situations in a sales environment. He emphasizes the importance of coaching opportunities and scaling through challenges or problems with existing salespeople. Tim shares his approach to handling a situation where an account manager did not provide the level of service they were supposed to, causing a client to feel that the service level had dropped. He stresses the importance of being open, honest, and transparent, taking responsibility, and having a plan to fix the issue. As a CEO, Tim wants to show his team how to take ownership and responsibility for handling similar situations and eventually be able to handle them independently.
Tim emphasizes the importance of building a strong culture in a business. According to Tim, a company’s culture should be grounded in its core values, which should guide the behavior and actions of every team member. The culture should be so strong that it feels like a cult, somewhere between a business and a religion. Tim believes that a strong company culture can significantly impact business success by attracting and retaining top talent and creating an environment where everyone feels valued, motivated, and committed to achieving the company’s goals.
To maintain the company’s culture, Tim emphasizes the importance of hiring according to core values and being strict with those values when people do not live up to them. He suggests promoting and praising team members who embody the company’s core values. By doing so, it reinforces the importance of these values and helps to maintain the culture. Overall, Tim believes that building and maintaining a solid company culture is essential for business success.
In this podcast, Kevin and Sean talk to Tim Warren, the founder, and CEO of Helium SEO. Tim talks about his background and how he got into sales. He discusses his experience building technical engineering-focused SEO and SEM campaigns for mid-size and enterprise clients. He also explains how his company has been able to drive higher ROI for its clients.
Tim shares his leadership journey as a sales leader and how he has learned that star salespeople don’t always make great coaches. He emphasizes the importance of having a sales process in place and training salespeople effectively to ensure consistency in performance. Tim also talks about the challenges of growing a sales team, such as hiring the right people and scaling the team without sacrificing quality. He reinforces why his LinkedIn profile says he is “Recruiting rockstars to build Helium to $100M. Are you ready to take your career to the next level?”
This podcast provides insights into Tim Warren’s sales journey and his approach to building and leading successful sales teams.
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