Stop Guessing. Start Assessing: The First Step Toward Sales Growth

Stop Guessing. Start Assessing: The First Step Toward Sales Growth

Are you feeling stuck in your sales organization? You’re not alone. Many founders, CEOs, and sales leaders eventually hit an invisible wall—a growth plateau. Key deals slip away. Your top salesperson, who carries far too much weight, starts to burn out.

In these moments, the instinct is often to push harder. But what’s needed isn’t more hustle. It’s clarity. And clarity starts with a strategic sales assessment.

What a Sales Assessment Means

Too often, leaders see assessments as formalities—checklists that confirm what they already believe. That’s a mistake. An accurate sales assessment is diagnostic. It reveals what’s working, what’s broken, and what’s missing.

Revenue growth doesn’t always mean you’re on the right path. Many companies are growing despite misalignment, not because of strategic execution. Are your sales activities aligned with your market opportunity? Are you pursuing the right prospects with the right message? Or are you just getting lucky?

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Stop Guessing, Start Growing: How Strategic Sales Assessments Drive Real Revenue

Stop Guessing, Start Growing: How Strategic Sales Assessments Drive Real Revenue

You’ll eventually hit a wall if you’re running a sales organization—or wearing multiple hats as founder, CEO, and sales manager. That wall is often invisible until growth stalls, key deals slip through the cracks, or your top salesperson burns out. So, what’s the next move? It’s not more hustle. It’s assessment.

A sales assessment isn’t about checking boxes. It’s about understanding where you are, how you operate, and what’s holding you back. Too many small business leaders assume they’re doing fine because revenue is growing or the team is hitting their quotas. But are you growing at the rate your market allows? Are your sales activities aligned with your long-term goals? Are you building a repeatable system, or are you just getting lucky?

Let’s get tactical. A sales plan isn’t just a revenue target. It’s your go-to-market strategy. It defines your audience, your message, and your motion. It answers why you’re talking to those prospects and what value you’re bringing to them. Without a plan, you’re reacting instead of executing. You’re chasing leads instead of building a pipeline.

If you’re a small company—perhaps under $30 million in revenue—and selling into a national market, chances are your market potential is hundreds of millions, maybe billions. That means your market share is a rounding error, which means there’s room to grow. The question is: Are you operating in a way that allows you to capture that growth?

Even if you’re running lean, you should benchmark your performance against top-tier organizations. Not because you’re competing with them directly, but because they set the standard. What are they doing that you’re not? Where are they more efficient? How do they structure their teams? You’re leaving money on the table if you’re not asking those questions.

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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Know Your Numbers: A Sales Leader’s Guide to Growth Metrics – E132

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Know Your Numbers: A Sales Leader’s Guide to Growth Metrics – E132

As Q2 kicks into full gear, it’s time to pause and reflect—are you ahead, on pace, or falling behind on your sales targets? In this insightful episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey unpack one of a sales leader’s most crucial yet often overlooked responsibilities: knowing your numbers. With equal parts practical advice and strategic vision, this conversation walks you through the foundational metrics every sales leader should track—customer acquisition cost, average transaction size, support staffing ratios, and more. Whether you’re forecasting growth, scaling headcount, or simply trying to stay ahead of the competition, this episode is your playbook for building a metrics-driven sales organization that thrives.

Key Topics Discussed

  • Why “Keeping Score” Matters in Sales Leadership (00:00)
    Kevin kicks off the episode with a strong analogy to competitive sports, emphasizing that tracking performance metrics is non-negotiable for sales leaders aiming to grow.
  • Building a Forward-Looking Sales Metrics Matrix (00:01)
    Kevin walks through how to build a simple but powerful matrix using transaction volume, average deal size, and headcount to visualize both current performance and future goals.
  • Calculating Average Transaction Size and Quota Coverage (00:02)
    Learn how to reverse-engineer quota achievement by dividing sales goals by average transaction size to determine activity targets for your team.
  • Understanding Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC) (00:05)
    Sean breaks down the components of CAC and explains why every sales leader must know this figure to scale sustainably and profitably.
  • Debunking the “Geopolitics Are Killing Sales” Excuse (00:09)
    Sean challenges the notion that global events are valid reasons for missed quotas, reinforcing that internal execution and strategic clarity are what really matter.
  • Aligning Sales Activity with Strategic Growth Goals (00:12)
    Kevin closes the episode with a systems-thinking approach to leadership, showing how small adjustments in metrics, team development, and compensation can drive exponential growth.

Key Quotes

Kevin Lawson: “Keeping score is important. Really important. I’m talking like March Madness. Final game. Important.” (00:00)

Sean O’Shaughnessey: “If it takes you more than 20 minutes to figure out this information, then you need a better bookkeeping system.” (00:06)

Sean O’Shaughnessey: “You need to know what your average deal size is. You need to know how long it takes you to get a customer. Your CRM should be solving that.” (00:07)

Kevin Lawson: “We want to gently steer our company towards our goals. So the thinking about this process is all about knowing your numbers.” (00:12)

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Build Your Sales Metrics Matrix This Week
Start with your annual revenue goal. Break it down by the number of salespeople, average transaction value, and number of transactions needed per rep per month. Then layer in your customer acquisition cost, support staffing ratios, and expected margin. This matrix becomes your roadmap for scaling intelligently—whether you’re doubling headcount, expanding territory, or just trying to hit a consistent quota.

Episode Summary

In a world of uncertainty, Two Tall Guys Talking Sales reminds us that clarity comes from data. Kevin and Sean deliver a compelling, no-nonsense discussion about how to take control of your revenue engine by genuinely understanding the math behind your sales motion. Whether you’re a CEO, VP of Sales, or just starting to lead a team, this episode offers an essential primer on aligning your operations to your goals. Don’t miss this one—it might be the wake-up call your spreadsheet has been waiting for.

👉 Hit play now to future-proof your sales strategy by learning how to know your numbers like a pro.

Becoming a Trusted Advisor: Solve Problems, Not Just Sell Products

Becoming a Trusted Advisor: Solve Problems, Not Just Sell Products

In B2B sales and sales leadership, problem-solving is an art that goes beyond selling a product or service. The secret to becoming a trusted advisor is addressing business problems, not just selling a product. This concept resonates with salespeople, sales managers, and small business CEOs who sell themselves or manage a team of salespeople. 

Sales is not just about pushing a product or closing a deal; it’s about forging relationships, understanding businesses and their unique challenges, and offering solutions to these problems. The role of a trusted advisor is not to sell a product and become a trusted advisor, but rather to become a trusted advisor who can sell a product. 

The reward for earning trusted advisor status is immeasurable. It is fantastic to receive a call from a client asking for advice on solving problems they have never discussed with you. Imagine having relationships that stand the test of time and outlast competition and challenges. 

So, how does one become a trusted advisor and solve problems for clients rather than just selling them a great product? It starts with building a relationship from scratch. When starting with a prospect list or an ideal client profile, the goal is not to find anyone who will respond but to seek opportunities to build meaningful relationships. 

The cornerstone of these relationships is reliability. 

  • Are you always punctual? 
  • Do you cancel at the last minute? 
  • Do you forget to return phone calls? 

These behaviors erode trust. On the other hand, showing up when needed, providing solutions even when they are not directly related to your product or service, and connecting clients to others who can help them are behaviors that build trust. 

Becoming a trusted advisor also involves understanding and curiosity about the client’s business. Do you ask questions about how the prospective company makes and loses money, how it dealt with past challenges like the pandemic, and how it deals with current challenges like rising inflation or supply chain disruption? The aim is to understand the client’s business, challenges, and competitors and offer insights and parallels to other companies. 

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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Mastering Time Management: Essential Strategies for Sales Managers – E123

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Mastering Time Management: Essential Strategies for Sales Managers – E123

Time is the most valuable resource for any professional, but for sales managers, it is the linchpin of success. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive into the critical strategies for effective time management as a sales leader. Whether you’re a new sales manager, an aspiring leader, or a business owner overseeing a sales team, this discussion is packed with insights to help you optimize your calendar, empower your team, and drive performance without falling into the trap of micromanagement.

Key Topics Discussed

  • The Shift from Salesperson to Sales Manager (00:03:00)
    Understanding the common pitfalls new sales managers face when transitioning from an individual contributor to a leadership role.
  • The Role of a Sales Manager: Player vs. Coach (00:04:00)
    Why sales managers must avoid the “player-coach” mindset and instead focus on leading, mentoring, and enabling their team’s success.
  • Structuring Your Calendar for Maximum Impact (00:05:45)
    How to design your weekly schedule to balance coaching, strategy, internal meetings, and team availability while avoiding distractions.
  • The Power of Shared Calendars and CRMs (00:07:00)
    Best practices for leveraging shared calendars and CRM tools to improve communication, transparency, and sales efficiency.
  • Why Sales Managers Should Be Like Basketball Coaches (00:13:30)
    The importance of stepping back and allowing sales reps to take the lead in deals—coaching them rather than closing for them.

Key Quotes

🗣 Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:02:55):
“When you are a sales manager, your job is to make others better. You shouldn’t be stealing deals from your sales reps—you should be empowering them to succeed.”

🗣 Kevin Lawson (00:04:00):
“A player is different from being a coach. Players take direction, coaches give direction. If you’re leading a team, you need to be coaching, not competing.”

🗣 Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:14:00):
“Watch a basketball game and look at the coach. How many times do they step onto the court to take a free throw for their players? Never. That’s how sales management should work too.”

Additional Resources

  • 📘 The One Minute Manager by Ken Blanchard & Spencer Johnson – A classic guide to leadership and effective management.
  • 📅 Book Time with Sean – Need help refining your sales management strategy? Schedule a consultation.

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Audit Your Calendar and Block Time for Success
Sales managers must structure their schedules intentionally. Take 30 minutes to review your calendar for the upcoming week:
✅ Block out time for coaching your team.
✅ Set aside dedicated slots for strategy and internal meetings.
✅ Ensure your calendar is updated and visible for your team.
✅ Reserve time for proactive sales engagement, like voice-of-the-customer calls.

Making these adjustments will free you from constant firefighting and allow you to lead effectively.

Why You Should Listen to This Episode

If you’re a sales manager—or aspiring to be one—this episode is a must-listen. Kevin and Sean deliver practical, real-world strategies to help you break free from micromanagement, structure your time effectively, and lead your team to success. Stop getting caught up in the weeds and start managing like a pro. Listen now and take control of your sales leadership journey!

🎧 Hit play and start optimizing your sales management strategy today! 🚀

Building Winning Sales Teams for the Future: Insights for CEOs and Sales Leaders

Building Winning Sales Teams for the Future: Insights for CEOs and Sales Leaders

What are the key moves that CEOs and sales leaders must make to prepare their teams for success in 2025? That’s exactly what we explored in a recent episode of the Art and Science of Complex Sales podcast hosted by Paul Fuller of Membrain. I had the pleasure of joining Kevin Lawson, President of Lighthouse Sales Advisors, for a deep dive into the strategies defining high-performing sales organizations in the year ahead.

You may recognize Kevin’s name. He is my co-host on the Two Tall Guys Talking Sales podcast. Paul titled our interview with him “Building Winning Sales Teams for the Future with Two Tall Guys.”

In the episode, we uncover the real-world tactics and leadership insights that can help CEOs transform their sales organizations—from defining who to sell to building processes that deliver consistent results. If you’re serious about leading a sales team that thrives amid complexity, I highly encourage you to listen to the full conversation. The link is below—don’t miss it.

Driving Growth Through Data-Driven Leadership

One of the central themes we cover is the role of data in guiding strategic decisions. Successful sales leadership today hinges on the ability to read the right signals—metrics like call volumes, deal velocity, customer life cycles, and attrition rates. We discuss how to turn that data into insights that refine your ideal customer profile (ICP) and strengthen your sales and marketing efforts.

We also discuss how a CEO’s dashboard isn’t static. It must evolve based on the business environment, market pressures, and geopolitical events. Paul Fuller helps steer the conversation into practical territory, where we explore how CEOs can stay ahead by making data-informed decisions and leading their teams with clarity and focus.

This podcast episode will be particularly valuable if you’re a CEO or revenue leader aiming to refine your strategic lens. Be sure to check it out through the link below.

Coaching for Consistent Performance Improvement

Data might show you where to focus, but coaching is what gets you results. Kevin and I discuss the importance of coaching for incremental gains—not just pushing reps to hit more numbers but helping them level up in ability and mindset.

We show how leaders can move salespeople from C-level to B-level performers and beyond through relatable sports analogies and real-world examples. These small, steady improvements compound over time and create a team of confident, capable sellers who know how to win.

We also touch on the need for structured coaching frameworks and repeatable systems, which we provide through website resources. If you lead a team that could benefit from a morale, performance, or accountability boost, this is a conversation you won’t want to miss.

Building a Repeatable, Scalable Sales Process

We close the episode with a focused discussion on sales process discipline. By taking a structured approach to evaluating leads—based on product fit, probability, and alignment with your ICP—leaders can drive better forecasting and higher win rates.

Even modest improvements in key areas like win rate, deal size, and sales cycle length can produce exponential results. We explore how a 7% uptick in core metrics could double your revenue. The message is clear: Clarity, consistency, and customer focus are non-negotiable in 2025.

If you’re looking to future-proof your sales organization, this podcast episode is packed with strategies and examples that can serve as a roadmap. Listen to the full episode and learn how to apply these concepts to your company.


Listen to the Full Episode

This is a powerful episode for CEOs, sales leaders, and anyone responsible for building and leading high-performance sales teams. If you’re ready to equip your team for 2025 and beyond, don’t miss this conversation on the Art and Science of Complex Sales podcast.

🎧 Episode: Building Winning Sales Teams for the Future with Two Tall Guys
🎙 Host: Paul Fuller of Membrain
🔗 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/building-winning-sales-teams-for-the-future-with-two/id1723340327?i=1000684372709

Click the link to listen now—you’ll walk away with actionable ideas to implement immediately.

From Micro-Manager to Leader: Fostering Growth in Your Sales Team

From Micro-Manager to Leader: Fostering Growth in Your Sales Team

Are you unknowingly sabotaging your sales team’s success? The answer might surprise you. The actual cost of micromanagement extends far beyond immediate productivity concerns.

Trust forms the bedrock of every high-performing sales organization. Yet many sales leaders unconsciously undermine this foundation through micromanagement. You’ve seen the signs – constant check-ins, questioning every decision, and hovering over your team’s shoulders. The culture you’ve worked so hard to build is slowly eroding.

Your best salespeople are leaving. Team morale is plummeting.

Let’s be clear about what constitutes micromanagement in sales. It’s not about being involved or interested in your team’s work. The real issue emerges when you start dictating every move and creating an atmosphere of constant surveillance.

Consider the cost of replacing top sales talent in today’s market. Beyond the substantial financial investment, you’re losing institutional knowledge and client relationships. Your organization can’t afford this drain on resources, and the impact reverberates throughout your entire sales ecosystem.

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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Sales Intelligence 101: Using AI and Networking to Target Ideal Customers – E112

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Sales Intelligence 101: Using AI and Networking to Target Ideal Customers – E112

Welcome to another compelling episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales with hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey! Kevin and Sean dive deep into a central challenge for sales teams: identifying ideal customers and building a robust prospect list. In this episode, they uncover practical strategies, share indispensable tools, and illustrate how a strong grasp of your customer can turn prospects into loyal clients. Whether you’re part of a lean sales team or managing large territories, this episode is loaded with insights to help you grow.

Key Topics Discussed

  • Building Your Prospect List (approx. 2:00): Kevin introduces the concept of creating an ideal prospect list and breaks down the importance of strategic targeting beyond mere proximity or broad industry fit.
  • Activating and Leveraging Networks (approx. 3:00): Both hosts discuss the value of networking to uncover warm referrals, emphasizing the need to build a customized, one-to-one outreach strategy.
  • Effective Tools for Targeting Customers (approx. 4:45): Sean and Kevin highlight essential tools like LinkedIn Sales Navigator, KnowledgeNet, and AI-powered tools like Perplexity to streamline the process of finding and qualifying leads.
  • Understanding the Customer’s Goals and Structure (approx. 7:20): Sean shares a story about understanding internal company dynamics and how knowing a prospect’s structure and goals helps in creating value-oriented solutions.
  • Actionable Research Insights (approx. 10:15): The duo dives into practical research techniques to understand client organizations and stakeholders, stressing that informed sellers are empowered sellers.

Key Quotes

  • Kevin: “To build a good prospect list, it doesn’t have to mean endless hours on Google or hundreds of cold calls. With the right tools, you can have a list ready before lunch.” (approx. 5:55)
  • Sean: “Your job isn’t just to sell a product; it’s to solve a problem. When you start with that goal, the sale becomes almost inevitable.” (approx. 14:40)
  • Kevin: “Whether you’re a team of one or a team of five, using the tools at hand to maximize your reach and impact makes you competitive.” (approx. 13:00)

Additional Resources

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Leverage AI-powered tools to gain deeper insights into target companies and individuals before engaging in outreach. By using resources like Perplexity to understand a client’s structure, goals, and decision-making processes, salespeople can craft highly personalized solutions that add immediate value.

In the episode, Sean challenged people to use Perplexity to research his fellow co-host, Kevin Lawson. Here is that Perplexity search: https://www.perplexity.ai/search/can-you-help-me-with-informati-Hdjvd9OgQTWFXrODrlhHnQ


In this episode, Kevin and Sean clarify that sales is about more than products—it’s about partnerships. Discover how to empower yourself with the right tools, refine your approach to prospecting, and bring authentic value to each client. Tune in to Two Tall Guys Talking Sales for actionable strategies to transform how you engage, connect, and close.

The Right Person in the Right Seat: Unleashing Company Growth through Strategic Sales Leadership

The Right Person in the Right Seat: Unleashing Company Growth through Strategic Sales Leadership

A recurring issue for small companies has emerged; the company’s owner or CEO often leads the sales department. This might be because they believe no one else can sell their product or service better than they can. However, this mindset might be hampering the company’s growth potential.

If you’re a company owner or CEO who leads sales, it’s crucial to consider the risk of this approach. When the person leading the company also heads sales, the business is constrained by the amount of time that leader has. If your salespeople consistently wait for your input or response, you might face a growth opportunity and a challenge simultaneously.

The solution lies in de-risking your organization’s growth potential by getting a sales leader in the sales leadership seat separate from you. This concept resonates with the theory of constraints, a principle often applied in the manufacturing industry but equally applicable in sales. The theory of constraints focuses on identifying the factors that limit your success. 

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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales Podcast – The Art of Targeting: How Small Sales Teams Can Win Big in Expansive Territories – E111

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales Podcast – The Art of Targeting: How Small Sales Teams Can Win Big in Expansive Territories – E111

In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive deep into the challenges and strategies of managing large sales territories, especially for teams with fewer than five sellers. Reflecting on their extensive sales careers, they explore the intricacies of balancing time, travel, and targeting the right clients when facing expansive regions. Kevin and Sean share actionable insights on refining the ideal client profile (ICP) and discuss how small business owners and sales leaders can make intentional, high-impact decisions in their outreach efforts. Tune in to discover effective approaches to optimizing sales territories and maximizing limited resources to achieve sustainable growth in the new year.

Key Topics Discussed

  • The Impact of Large Sales Territories on Small Teams (00:01:38): Kevin and Sean discuss the demands of covering extensive sales regions, whether a few states or half the country and why focus and territory management are crucial for smaller sales teams.
  • The Importance of Ideal Client Profiles (00:04:57): Sean explains how understanding and refining your ICP can simplify prospecting, ensure each lead mirrors your most valuable clients, and avoid wasted effort on non-ideal targets.
  • Leveraging Top Clients for Networking and Referrals (00:09:03): Sean and Kevin emphasize the value of networking over cold prospecting, suggesting that current clients can provide introductions and case studies that open doors to similar high-potential accounts.
  • Using Personas to Deepen Client Relationships (00:11:00): Kevin discusses how personas complement the ICP by focusing on individual motivators, ensuring sellers speak directly to what matters most to each prospect.
  • Strategic Territory Planning for the Coming Year (00:12:59): The hosts explain how to plan for realistic, growth-oriented targets and advise on which regions and clients to prioritize based on resources and client potential.

Key Quotes

  • Kevin Lawson (00:05:34): “When you have less than five sellers on your team, your ideal client profile becomes really, really important… Look at your prospect list and ask yourself: do they fit my ICP? It’s something you can do today, quickly.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:10:48): “If you have the world as your territory…your quota needs to be based on how many people you can actually see and deal with—not on everyone who could theoretically buy your product.”
  • Kevin Lawson (00:11:18): “Ask yourself this: how does your ideal client persona earn a bonus? If your product doesn’t align with what matters to them, you’re likely speaking to the wrong person.”

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Refine Your Ideal Client Profile and Persona Today: Identify your top 10 favorite customers and analyze their shared traits. Compare these traits to your current prospect list, removing prospects that don’t align with your top client characteristics. This simple but powerful action helps ensure you’re spending time on prospects more likely to become valuable clients.


Closing Summary:

As you prepare for the upcoming year, Kevin and Sean’s conversation provides invaluable advice for small sales teams navigating large territories. Whether you’re a business owner, a solo seller, or a sales leader with a lean team, this episode reveals practical tactics for honing in on your ideal client profile, leveraging client relationships, and maximizing the impact of each sales call. Dive in to learn how to set your sales strategy up for success, and walk away with actionable tips you can implement immediately. Listen now and take your sales approach to new heights with Two Tall Guys Talking Sales!