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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Future-Proofing Your Sales with the Right Tech Stack – E115

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

In this thought-provoking episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive into the transformative power of technology in sales and operations. From the essentials of adopting a CRM to leveraging AI and automation, Kevin and Sean discuss how modern businesses can streamline operations, boost productivity, and prepare for the future. Whether you’re managing a small team or a large enterprise, this episode will provide actionable insights into creating an integrated tech stack that supports growth and resilience.

Key Topics Discussed

The Importance of a CRM System (Approx. 00:01:00)
- Why every organization needs a CRM to centralize and share data across teams, from sales to manufacturing.
- How a CRM can prevent revenue loss during sales team transitions.
Building an Integrated Tech Stack (Approx. 00:03:00)
- Understanding the interconnectedness of CRM, ERP, and project management tools.
- Simplifying operations with modern, cloud-based solutions.
Preparing for the AI Revolution (Approx. 00:04:00)
- How AI and machine learning are redefining operational workflows.
- Why having an AI strategy is essential for staying competitive.
Forecasting and Automation (Approx. 00:09:00)
- Leveraging technology to improve forecasting, pipeline management, and resource allocation.
- Automating routine tasks for efficiency and scalability.
The Role of Sales and Marketing Alignment (Approx. 00:11:00)
- Why sales and marketing collaboration is critical for success.
- How technology bridges the gap between these teams.

Key Quotes

Sean O’Shaughnessey:
“Your journey to 2035 starts right now. By staying on outdated tools, you’re not just behind—you’re making it harder to catch up later.” (Approx. 00:06:06)
Kevin Lawson:
“Technology is now part of the fabric of how we do business. If you want to grow and scale—or even just survive—adopting the right tools is the right battle to fight.” (Approx. 00:02:34)
Sean O’Shaughnessey:
“Revenue solves all problems in companies, but only if your systems are set up to support it.” (Approx. 00:12:23)

Additional Resources

McKinsey Report on AI in Business: September 2024 Edition.
HubSpot Marketplace: Tools to integrate CRM with calling apps and social media management platforms.
Ninety.io: Software for tracking KPIs and achieving quarterly goals.

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Start with Your CRM:
Evaluate your current CRM system (or lack thereof) and its integration with other business tools. Focus on centralizing data and enabling seamless communication between teams. This single step can drastically improve productivity, forecasting accuracy, and cross-functional collaboration.

Why You Should Listen

This episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales is a must-listen for anyone looking to future-proof their business. Kevin and Sean offer practical advice and actionable strategies to help you streamline operations, adopt cutting-edge technologies, and align your team for success. Whether you’re planning for 2025 or 2035, the insights shared in this episode will set you on the path to achieving your goals.

Tune in and discover how to take your sales operations to the next level!

From Micro-Manager to Leader: Fostering Growth in Your Sales Team

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Are you unknowingly sabotaging your sales team’s success? The answer might surprise you. The actual cost of micromanagement extends far beyond immediate productivity concerns.

Trust forms the bedrock of every high-performing sales organization. Yet many sales leaders unconsciously undermine this foundation through micromanagement. You’ve seen the signs – constant check-ins, questioning every decision, and hovering over your team’s shoulders. The culture you’ve worked so hard to build is slowly eroding.

Your best salespeople are leaving. Team morale is plummeting.

Let’s be clear about what constitutes micromanagement in sales. It’s not about being involved or interested in your team’s work. The real issue emerges when you start dictating every move and creating an atmosphere of constant surveillance.

Consider the cost of replacing top sales talent in today’s market. Beyond the substantial financial investment, you’re losing institutional knowledge and client relationships. Your organization can’t afford this drain on resources, and the impact reverberates throughout your entire sales ecosystem.

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Balancing Act: Networking, Direct Prospecting, and Customer Referrals for Revenue Growth

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Is your sales pipeline running dry? We’ve all been there.

Let me share a personal story that might resonate with you. After spending months securing a major deal, I found myself staring at an empty pipeline. The celebration of landing that giant whale quickly became a stark reality check. This experience taught me an invaluable lesson about sustainable sales growth.

Revenue generation isn’t just about closing deals—it’s about maintaining a consistent flow of opportunities. Your success depends on mastering the art of prospecting, yet many salespeople struggle with this fundamental skill. Are you dedicating enough time to building your pipeline, or are you caught in the feast-and-famine cycle?

The most effective sales professionals understand that prospecting isn’t a one-dimensional activity. Think of your prospecting strategy as a carefully orchestrated symphony, where different elements work together to create a harmonious result. Direct outreach and network-based approaches each play their unique roles in this composition.

Visualize a three-legged stool symbolizing the three-pronged approach to sales: networking and referrals, direct prospecting, and existing customers. Each of these legs supports growing your business and consistently achieving your revenue goals.

Consider how a software company might approach this dual strategy. While tracking metrics for direct outreach is straightforward, measuring networking success requires a different lens. How many new relationships have you cultivated? Which dormant connections have you rekindled? These indicators matter just as much as your cold call statistics.

I recently spoke with a consulting professional who shared an interesting perspective on networking metrics. Rather than counting sales pitches, he measures success by the number of times he naturally introduces his services in conversations. This subtle shift transforms aggressive selling into educational opportunities. Have you considered how this approach might work in your context?

Your prospecting strategy must align with your target audience’s expectations and behaviors. Waiting for inbound leads isn’t a strategy—it’s a recipe for inconsistent results. When you prospect through your network, the goal isn’t to ask for immediate business. Instead, you’re planting seeds for future opportunities through strategic introductions.

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Why Americans Should Be Thankful This Thanksgiving

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

As Thanksgiving approaches, the season offers a powerful moment to recognize our extraordinary position in the global business landscape. As business leaders, entrepreneurs, and professionals, we operate within a framework of unprecedented opportunity and abundance, and this reality deserves our attention and appreciation.

Our daily business operations rely on technological capabilities that much of the world’s population cannot access. Each time we open our laptops, join virtual meetings, or process digital transactions, we leverage tools representing remarkable privilege. These resources fundamentally transform our ability to build, scale, and succeed in business. The American business environment provides exceptional advantages that deserve recognition. Our infrastructure, legal frameworks, and market access create a foundation for entrepreneurial success. We benefit from systems that foster recovery and growth, even during challenging times. Consider our robust network of support services, educational resources, and professional opportunities.

Practicing intentional gratitude strengthens our leadership capacity and business perspective. Before your Thanksgiving celebration, take time to acknowledge the mentors, partners, and team members who’ve contributed to your journey. Recognize the systems and opportunities that enable your business operations. This reflection goes beyond mere sentiment—it builds resilience and shapes strategic thinking.

The business landscape presents significant challenges, and many professionals face personal struggles during the holiday season. Loss, isolation, or business setbacks can make the celebration feel difficult. The strength of our business community lies in supporting each other through these moments. Professional networks should extend beyond business transactions to genuine human connections.

Our position in the global business ecosystem carries both privilege and responsibility. While pursuing growth and innovation, we must maintain perspective on our advantageous starting point. The American business environment, despite its challenges, offers unprecedented opportunities for those willing to pursue them.

The holiday season provides a natural pause point for strategic reflection. Use this time to evaluate your position within the broader business landscape. Appreciate the resources, relationships, and opportunities that support your professional journey. This awareness strengthens your leadership capacity and business perspective. The privilege of operating in the American business environment extends beyond material advantages. It includes access to knowledge, networks, and opportunities for continuous growth. These assets represent extraordinary value in the global context. Our awareness of these advantages should inform our business decisions and leadership approaches.

Professional success intertwines with personal well-being. The strength of our business community depends on supporting each other beyond traditional business relationships. Reach out to your professional network with a genuine interest in their well-being. Strong communities build resilient businesses.

This Thanksgiving, let’s move beyond surface-level appreciation to meaningful recognition of our business advantages. The American entrepreneurial ecosystem provides extraordinary opportunities for growth and success. Acknowledging these advantages strengthens our capacity for effective leadership and sustainable business growth.

Contact me if you need support. Genuine connection and mutual support strengthen our shared success.

May your Thanksgiving celebration provide both rest and perspective for the journey ahead.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Selling Trust: The New Era of Salesmanship in the Digital Age

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Have you ever wondered why some salespeople consistently outperform their peers? The answer might surprise you – it’s not about pushing products anymore. Let me share a story that perfectly illustrates this point.

Picture yourself at a car dealership with a problematic engine. The service manager listens briefly and suggests trying premium fuel first instead of pushing for expensive repairs. This unexpected advice reveals the essence of modern sales: building trust over making quick profits.

The digital revolution has transformed how we sell. Your prospects now have instant access to product information, specifications, and reviews. They’ve often completed 70% of their buying journey before contacting you. So, what’s your role in this new landscape?

You must evolve from an information provider to a value creator. Think about it – when did a customer last ask you for basic product details? They don’t need that anymore. They need someone who can help them navigate complex decisions and create innovative solutions.

Consider enterprise software sales. Your customers aren’t just buying features and functions. They’re investing in solutions to their business challenges. Can you help them visualize how your product transforms their operations? Do you understand their workflow well enough to spot opportunities they might have missed?

Trust becomes your most powerful differentiator in this environment. But how do you build it? Through actions, not words. When you genuinely prioritize customer success over immediate sales, people notice. They remember when you steered them away from unnecessary purchases or suggested more cost-effective solutions.

The modern sales process demands a deeper understanding of your customer’s business context. You’re not just matching products to needs – you’re helping define those needs. What problems keep your prospects awake at night? Which industry trends threaten their market position? How can your solution help them stay competitive?

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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Sales Intelligence 101: Using AI and Networking to Target Ideal Customers – E112

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Welcome to another compelling episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales with hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey! Kevin and Sean dive deep into a central challenge for sales teams: identifying ideal customers and building a robust prospect list. In this episode, they uncover practical strategies, share indispensable tools, and illustrate how a strong grasp of your customer can turn prospects into loyal clients. Whether you’re part of a lean sales team or managing large territories, this episode is loaded with insights to help you grow.

Key Topics Discussed

Building Your Prospect List (approx. 2:00): Kevin introduces the concept of creating an ideal prospect list and breaks down the importance of strategic targeting beyond mere proximity or broad industry fit.
Activating and Leveraging Networks (approx. 3:00): Both hosts discuss the value of networking to uncover warm referrals, emphasizing the need to build a customized, one-to-one outreach strategy.
Effective Tools for Targeting Customers (approx. 4:45): Sean and Kevin highlight essential tools like LinkedIn Sales Navigator, KnowledgeNet, and AI-powered tools like Perplexity to streamline the process of finding and qualifying leads.
Understanding the Customer’s Goals and Structure (approx. 7:20): Sean shares a story about understanding internal company dynamics and how knowing a prospect’s structure and goals helps in creating value-oriented solutions.
Actionable Research Insights (approx. 10:15): The duo dives into practical research techniques to understand client organizations and stakeholders, stressing that informed sellers are empowered sellers.

Key Quotes

Kevin: “To build a good prospect list, it doesn’t have to mean endless hours on Google or hundreds of cold calls. With the right tools, you can have a list ready before lunch.” (approx. 5:55)
Sean: “Your job isn’t just to sell a product; it’s to solve a problem. When you start with that goal, the sale becomes almost inevitable.” (approx. 14:40)
Kevin: “Whether you’re a team of one or a team of five, using the tools at hand to maximize your reach and impact makes you competitive.” (approx. 13:00)

Additional Resources

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Leverage AI-powered tools to gain deeper insights into target companies and individuals before engaging in outreach. By using resources like Perplexity to understand a client’s structure, goals, and decision-making processes, salespeople can craft highly personalized solutions that add immediate value.

In the episode, Sean challenged people to use Perplexity to research his fellow co-host, Kevin Lawson. Here is that Perplexity search: https://www.perplexity.ai/search/can-you-help-me-with-informati-Hdjvd9OgQTWFXrODrlhHnQ

In this episode, Kevin and Sean clarify that sales is about more than products—it’s about partnerships. Discover how to empower yourself with the right tools, refine your approach to prospecting, and bring authentic value to each client. Tune in to Two Tall Guys Talking Sales for actionable strategies to transform how you engage, connect, and close.

The Right Person in the Right Seat: Unleashing Company Growth through Strategic Sales Leadership

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

A recurring issue for small companies has emerged; the company’s owner or CEO often leads the sales department. This might be because they believe no one else can sell their product or service better than they can. However, this mindset might be hampering the company’s growth potential.

If you’re a company owner or CEO who leads sales, it’s crucial to consider the risk of this approach. When the person leading the company also heads sales, the business is constrained by the amount of time that leader has. If your salespeople consistently wait for your input or response, you might face a growth opportunity and a challenge simultaneously.

The solution lies in de-risking your organization’s growth potential by getting a sales leader in the sales leadership seat separate from you. This concept resonates with the theory of constraints, a principle often applied in the manufacturing industry but equally applicable in sales. The theory of constraints focuses on identifying the factors that limit your success.

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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales Podcast – The Art of Targeting: How Small Sales Teams Can Win Big in Expansive Territories – E111

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive deep into the challenges and strategies of managing large sales territories, especially for teams with fewer than five sellers. Reflecting on their extensive sales careers, they explore the intricacies of balancing time, travel, and targeting the right clients when facing expansive regions. Kevin and Sean share actionable insights on refining the ideal client profile (ICP) and discuss how small business owners and sales leaders can make intentional, high-impact decisions in their outreach efforts. Tune in to discover effective approaches to optimizing sales territories and maximizing limited resources to achieve sustainable growth in the new year.

Key Topics Discussed

The Impact of Large Sales Territories on Small Teams (00:01:38): Kevin and Sean discuss the demands of covering extensive sales regions, whether a few states or half the country and why focus and territory management are crucial for smaller sales teams.
The Importance of Ideal Client Profiles (00:04:57): Sean explains how understanding and refining your ICP can simplify prospecting, ensure each lead mirrors your most valuable clients, and avoid wasted effort on non-ideal targets.
Leveraging Top Clients for Networking and Referrals (00:09:03): Sean and Kevin emphasize the value of networking over cold prospecting, suggesting that current clients can provide introductions and case studies that open doors to similar high-potential accounts.
Using Personas to Deepen Client Relationships (00:11:00): Kevin discusses how personas complement the ICP by focusing on individual motivators, ensuring sellers speak directly to what matters most to each prospect.
Strategic Territory Planning for the Coming Year (00:12:59): The hosts explain how to plan for realistic, growth-oriented targets and advise on which regions and clients to prioritize based on resources and client potential.

Key Quotes

Kevin Lawson (00:05:34): “When you have less than five sellers on your team, your ideal client profile becomes really, really important… Look at your prospect list and ask yourself: do they fit my ICP? It’s something you can do today, quickly.”
Sean O’Shaughnessey (00:10:48): “If you have the world as your territory…your quota needs to be based on how many people you can actually see and deal with—not on everyone who could theoretically buy your product.”
Kevin Lawson (00:11:18): “Ask yourself this: how does your ideal client persona earn a bonus? If your product doesn’t align with what matters to them, you’re likely speaking to the wrong person.”

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Refine Your Ideal Client Profile and Persona Today: Identify your top 10 favorite customers and analyze their shared traits. Compare these traits to your current prospect list, removing prospects that don’t align with your top client characteristics. This simple but powerful action helps ensure you’re spending time on prospects more likely to become valuable clients.

Closing Summary:

As you prepare for the upcoming year, Kevin and Sean’s conversation provides invaluable advice for small sales teams navigating large territories. Whether you’re a business owner, a solo seller, or a sales leader with a lean team, this episode reveals practical tactics for honing in on your ideal client profile, leveraging client relationships, and maximizing the impact of each sales call. Dive in to learn how to set your sales strategy up for success, and walk away with actionable tips you can implement immediately. Listen now and take your sales approach to new heights with Two Tall Guys Talking Sales!

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales Podcast – From First Sales Hire to Revenue Powerhouse: Essential Strategies for Business Owners – E110

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

In this episode of “Two Tall Guys Talking Sales,” hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive into the unique challenges and opportunities of hiring your second salesperson. Many small business owners face a pivotal moment when they bring on a sales team member who may know the company but not the ins and outs of professional selling. Join Kevin and Sean as they explore how to make the first and second salespeople truly effective, how to ramp up revenue, and how to know when it’s time to expand your sales team. Packed with actionable insights, this episode is a roadmap for business leaders looking to maximize their early sales hires and foster sustainable growth.

Key Topics Discussed:

The First Sales Hire: Opportunity or Risk? – Sean and Kevin discuss the challenges owners face when hiring a single salesperson who may lack deep sales expertise (00:00:17).
How to Make Your Second Sales Hire Successful – Kevin emphasizes the importance of a structured onboarding process focused on accountability, consistent communication, and setting measurable outcomes for new hires (00:02:24).
The Power of Accountability and Communication – Kevin and Sean lay out practical steps for holding a first salesperson accountable and how to provide actionable, regular feedback for improved performance (00:04:00).
Setting Success Metrics and Revenue Goals – Sean covers the critical role of defining success metrics and how to know when it’s time to hire a second salesperson or replace your current one (00:06:31).
Shortening the Sales Ramp-Up Time – Kevin challenges the assumption that onboarding takes years, urging owners to implement processes that cut onboarding from years to months (00:10:00).
Revenue Abundance Mindset – Sean closes with a motivational segment about the abundance of revenue potential in every industry, stressing the importance of targeting the ideal client profile (00:12:23).

Key Quotes:

Kevin: “The ‘how’ question is so important. How do we get someone into our organization in a way where they feel valued, are producing value, and we can all measure and feel the growth of that value throughout the organization?” (00:02:39)
Sean: “If you’re concerned that the salesperson is successful, but you’re not quite there, start by pushing two numbers—closing deals faster or bringing in more revenue per deal.” (00:07:55)
Kevin: “We need you as an owner to set a goal for yourself that this year, this next 12 months, you’re going to reduce the ramp time to one year. And in three years, we’re going from a two-year ramp to a 90-day ramp.” (00:10:24)
Sean: “There’s an abundance of people out there who want to buy your product and who have problems you can solve. Go after your ideal client profile, help them achieve their goals, and you will find more revenue than you ever imagined.” (00:14:23)

Additional Resources:

Sean’s Book – Eliminate Your Competition – Referenced as a comprehensive guide for building sales plans. Available for purchase on major book retailers’ websites. https://amzn.to/2K37ugx

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast:

Set Regular Checkpoints for New Sales Hires – Create a structured, regular feedback and accountability process for any new salesperson. Schedule weekly check-ins to evaluate progress on specific metrics such as speed of closing deals and revenue per deal. Adjust goals as needed to encourage growth and provide timely support.

Summary:

Whether you’re just starting to build your sales team or looking to improve your existing process, this episode of “Two Tall Guys Talking Sales” with Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey offers practical advice to drive real change. They dive deep into how to turn your first and second salesperson into a powerhouse by fostering accountability, clear communication, and a strategic growth mindset. Subscribe now and get ready to learn from the experts how to structure, support, and scale your sales efforts—taking your business to new heights.

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Empowering Non-Sales Employees to Boost Customer Value – E109

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

In this episode, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey, take listeners on a journey to understand the power of non-sales roles in supporting a sales-centric culture. Expanding on prior discussions about sales planning and execution, they explore how professionals outside the sales department—think programmers, customer service reps, delivery drivers, and even truckers—can play a pivotal role in enhancing client satisfaction and identifying new opportunities. Kevin and Sean dive into practical steps sales leaders can take to foster a collaborative environment where everyone contributes to sales success, making this an unmissable episode for business leaders, sales professionals, and anyone looking to understand the value of cross-functional synergy in achieving enterprise growth.

Key Topics Discussed

The Sales Quadrant Framework [00:01:00]: Kevin and Sean introduce a framework for effective sales planning, dividing it into four quadrants: Strategy, Process, People, and KPIs. This framework guides leaders on fostering a holistic sales ecosystem.
Sales for Non-Salespeople: Defining the Role [00:01:40]: The hosts discuss how non-sales team members, from programmers to quality agents, can pass along valuable customer insights without selling directly. It’s about listening and relaying information to sales, not cold calls or quotas.
Leveraging Customer Interactions for Insight [00:03:14]: Sean shares a vivid example from his software background, where consultants gathering customer feedback created substantial upsell opportunities. He emphasizes the value of customer-facing team members in providing sales with a view from the trenches.
Building Relationships Across Teams [00:07:00]: Kevin discusses strategies to align cross-functional team goals with sales objectives, creating a supportive network that encourages the entire team to spot potential sales opportunities.
The Importance of Gratitude and Recognition [00:12:07]: Sean underscores the value of acknowledging and thanking team members who help sales, reinforcing their role in supporting company-wide goals and deepening relationships across departments.

Key Quotes

Kevin Lawson: “We’re not asking non-salespeople to sell, but we are asking them to raise their hand when they see something we might need to know about to help our customers better.” [00:01:59]
Sean O’Shaughnessey: “In every company, people need help achieving their goals. And often, the folks who see where we can help the most aren’t in the sales department—they’re on the front lines, interacting with customers daily.” [00:04:11]
Kevin Lawson: “Be a better person in business. Support your teammates, your vendors, and your community, and that support will circle back, lifting everyone’s success.” [00:14:04]
Sean O’Shaughnessey: “A simple ‘thank you’ can be the most valuable recognition, and it builds bridges with your team. Make it a habit.” [00:12:46]

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Empower Non-Sales Team Members to Listen for Opportunities
Sales leaders should hold short training sessions or casual discussions with non-sales staff, educating them on key signals that may indicate an opportunity. Encourage these team members to feel comfortable sharing insights with sales and clarify that they won’t be pressured to sell—just to observe and communicate.

Summary: This Two Tall Guys Talking Sales episode delivers essential insights for any sales-driven organization. Kevin and Sean emphasize the untapped potential within non-sales teams, showing how they can indirectly yet powerfully support sales efforts by sharing customer feedback and needs. With practical strategies for fostering collaboration and recognizing the contributions of non-sales staff, this episode is a must-listen for sales leaders looking to unlock every possible avenue of client satisfaction and revenue growth. Tune in and discover how even a small tweak in team communication can significantly impact your bottom line.