Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Tom Gottlieb of Berkshire Hathaway Explains How Buyers Want Growth- How Sales Leaders Can Increase Company Worth – E131

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Tom Gottlieb of Berkshire Hathaway Explains How Buyers Want Growth- How Sales Leaders Can Increase Company Worth – E131

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

In this insightful episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey welcome business intermediary Tom Gottlieb of Berkshire Hathaway. Tom brings decades of experience in buying, selling, and valuing businesses across the Midwest. The conversation dives deep into what truly drives the value of a company—and how sales leaders and business owners alike can prepare their organizations for a future transition. Whether you’re a business owner considering a sale or a sales executive interested in how sales performance impacts company valuation, this episode delivers invaluable guidance. It’s part education, part strategy session, and all high-value insight.

Key Topics Discussed

  • The Three Core Approaches to Business Valuation – Asset, income, and comparative market methods explained simply and practically. (04:22)
  • Preparing a Business for Sale: Lessons from Real Estate – Why “curb appeal” matters for companies and how to improve it over time. (07:36)
  • What Buyers Want: Sales Growth, Consistency, and Processes – How prospective buyers assess the health of a business beyond profit margins. (09:00)
  • The Hidden Red Flag: When the Owner Is the Only Salesperson – Risks for buyers and strategies for mitigating dependency on the founder. (13:31)
  • Leveraging AI to Gain Competitive Market Intelligence – How technology is transforming buyer and seller knowledge in M&A. (11:32)

Key Quotes

Tom Gottlieb: “Every buyer wants the same thing: a business that works without the owner. That means strong processes, steady sales growth, and predictable profitability.” (09:01)
Sean O’Shaughnessey: “So if you don’t want to stick around after the sale, then train your sales team now—and watch the value of your company go up.” (14:16)
Kevin Lawson: “Tom, every time we talk, I walk away with something new. This episode is no exception.” (11:31)
Tom Gottlieb: “Buyers rarely show up with a bag of cash. There’s a timeline. A deal doesn’t close in a weekend—it’s often a year-long journey.” (07:00)

Additional Resources

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Start documenting your sales process today.
If you are a business owner—or advise one—and the majority of revenue hinges on a single salesperson (often the owner themselves), that’s a red flag for any future buyer. Begin formalizing your sales process, distribute responsibilities among team members, and track sales metrics consistently. This improves operational resilience and significantly enhances company value in a potential sale.

Why You Should Listen to This Episode

Selling a business isn’t just about profit, perception, process, and preparedness. In this episode, Kevin and Sean extract wisdom from Tom Gottlieb that applies to any B2B organization considering an exit in the next 3 to 10 years. It’s packed with strategic takeaways, sales insights, and behind-the-scenes truths about what makes a business attractive to buyers. Whether you’re a founder, an investor, or a sales leader, this episode will reshape how you think about long-term value creation. Tune in and learn how to make your business sell-ready—starting now.

To understand if your company is doing a great job in sales, take this quick and easy assessment: https://newsales.expert/b2b-sales-capability-assessment/

Why Cold Calling is Dead: The Shift to Relationship-Based Selling

Why Cold Calling is Dead: The Shift to Relationship-Based Selling

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Building an effective sales pipeline requires a shift in strategy. Traditional cold calling has become increasingly ineffective, with decision-makers ignoring unsolicited calls and emails.

In the spring of 2021, Bank of America Corp.’s Merrill Lynch Wealth Management unit banned trainee brokers from making cold calls. According to the Wall Street Journal, it is hard to succeed with cold phone calls in an era when no one picks up. Merrill executives said personal referrals lead to a response around 40% of the time, but less than 2% of people who are cold-called even answer the phone.

Sales teams must adopt a more strategic approach, focusing on relationships rather than volume-based outreach. The key is leveraging existing networks to create warm introductions, significantly improving engagement rates and overall success.

Cold outreach has become expensive and inefficient, and the time spent dialing numbers, leaving voicemails, and sending emails that never get opened results in diminishing returns. Many executives no longer answer unknown calls, and email filters automatically sort cold outreach into spam. Even when messages get through, recipients are skeptical, assuming they are generated by automation rather than a genuine human connection. In reality, sales professionals must find a better way to reach their target audience.

Relationship-based selling offers a more effective alternative. Salespeople should focus on leveraging their connections instead of reaching out to strangers. This approach involves identifying key contacts who can provide warm introductions to potential prospects. These “super connectors” are individuals with strong networks and the ability to facilitate meaningful introductions. By tapping into these relationships, sales teams can bypass the skepticism associated with cold outreach and start conversations with credibility.

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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – The Death of Cold Calling and the Rise of Relationship Selling – E119

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – The Death of Cold Calling and the Rise of Relationship Selling – E119

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Cold calling is dead—or so claims our guest, Ben Victorica, in this thought-provoking Two Tall Guys Talking Sales episode. Hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive deep with Ben into the challenges of modern sales pipelines and explore why traditional outreach methods are no longer effective. Together, they uncover how relationship selling, fueled by emotional intelligence and strategic connections, is reshaping the future of sales. Whether you’re a seasoned sales professional or just starting out, this episode is packed with actionable insights you can’t afford to miss.

Key Topics Discussed

  • Why Cold Calling is Ineffective Today
    Ben discusses the inefficiency of cold outreach in the modern era, citing Bank of America’s 2021 decision to ban cold calling as a pivotal moment in sales strategy. (Approx. 00:01:00)
  • The Economics of Cold Outreach vs. Relationship Selling
    Sean explains the hidden costs of cold calling, emphasizing the expensive hourly rate of quota-bearing sales reps and its low ROI. (Approx. 00:02:20)
  • Leveraging LinkedIn for Strategic Connections
    Ben provides a practical, step-by-step guide to mining LinkedIn connections for warm referrals, using your network intelligently without costly tools. (Approx. 00:05:35)
  • The Role of Emotional Intelligence in Modern Sales
    Kevin and Ben discuss how sales professionals can use emotional intelligence and relationship intelligence tools to identify and nurture stronger business relationships. (Approx. 00:10:45)
  • Maximizing Relationship Capital with Technology
    Ben introduces KnowledgeNet, a tool that helps sales teams unlock and scale their relationship capital to drive business growth. (Approx. 00:12:00)

Key Quotes

  • Kevin Lawson:
    “Top of funnel cold outreach with no relationship is nearly impossible—it’s a cost line on any P&L.” (Approx. 00:04:48)
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey:
    “If you hand someone a list of 100 people you’d like an introduction to, you’ll get zero. But ask for five or ten, and you’ll get meaningful connections.” (Approx. 00:07:45)
  • Ben Victorica:
    “Cold calling is dead. Relationship selling instead.” (Approx. 00:01:49)

Additional Resources Mentioned

  • KnowledgeNet.ai: A powerful tool to uncover and leverage relationship capital within your organization. Visit KnowledgeNet
  • Wall Street Journal 2021 Article: Referenced by Ben regarding Bank of America’s decision to ban cold calling – https://www.wsj.com/articles/bank-of-americas-merrill-lynch-to-ban-trainee-brokers-from-making-cold-calls-11621850400.

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Use LinkedIn as a referral engine.
List key LinkedIn connections that align with your ideal customer profile. Then, approach your strongest network contacts—your “super connectors”—with a curated list of five to ten potential introductions. Respect their time and include a pre-written email template to make the referral process seamless.

Why You Should Listen to This Episode

The sales landscape has shifted, and the old playbook of cold calling no longer delivers results. This episode offers a fresh perspective on building pipelines using strategic relationships and modern tools like KnowledgeNet. Packed with real-world advice from Kevin, Sean, and Ben, this conversation will inspire you to rethink your sales approach. Ready to ditch outdated tactics and embrace the future of selling? Tune in now to gain the edge you need.

Unlocking Sales Success: The Power of KPIs in Sales Processes

Unlocking Sales Success: The Power of KPIs in Sales Processes

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Are your sales KPIs helping your team succeed? Many sales leaders focus solely on closed deals. This narrow view misses crucial elements of sustainable sales growth.

The journey matters more than the destination. Sales excellence follows a similar path. Your team’s daily actions and behaviors create the foundation for lasting success.

Effective sales measurement requires a comprehensive view of your team’s activities. Top performers consistently execute vital behaviors that drive results. They prospect strategically, nurture relationships, and expand their presence within existing accounts. These leading indicators paint a clearer picture of future performance than lagging metrics alone.

Your KPI framework must evolve beyond historical analysis. Forward-looking metrics help you spot opportunities and challenges before they impact revenue. What’s happening in your pipeline right now? How are your teams finding new prospects? Which accounts show growth potential?

Experience levels significantly impact appropriate performance measures. New salespeople face different challenges than seasoned veterans. A rookie might need help with fundamental sales behaviors while learning your company’s approach. They need clear operational guidance and structured metrics that reinforce proper execution.

Veteran salespeople bring established skills and proven track records. Their KPIs should emphasize continuous improvement and cultural alignment. How are they advancing their capabilities? What value do they add to the broader sales organization?

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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Future-Proofing Your Sales with the Right Tech Stack – E115

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Future-Proofing Your Sales with the Right Tech Stack – E115

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

In this thought-provoking episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive into the transformative power of technology in sales and operations. From the essentials of adopting a CRM to leveraging AI and automation, Kevin and Sean discuss how modern businesses can streamline operations, boost productivity, and prepare for the future. Whether you’re managing a small team or a large enterprise, this episode will provide actionable insights into creating an integrated tech stack that supports growth and resilience.

Key Topics Discussed

  1. The Importance of a CRM System (Approx. 00:01:00)
    • Why every organization needs a CRM to centralize and share data across teams, from sales to manufacturing.
    • How a CRM can prevent revenue loss during sales team transitions.
  2. Building an Integrated Tech Stack (Approx. 00:03:00)
    • Understanding the interconnectedness of CRM, ERP, and project management tools.
    • Simplifying operations with modern, cloud-based solutions.
  3. Preparing for the AI Revolution (Approx. 00:04:00)
    • How AI and machine learning are redefining operational workflows.
    • Why having an AI strategy is essential for staying competitive.
  4. Forecasting and Automation (Approx. 00:09:00)
    • Leveraging technology to improve forecasting, pipeline management, and resource allocation.
    • Automating routine tasks for efficiency and scalability.
  5. The Role of Sales and Marketing Alignment (Approx. 00:11:00)
    • Why sales and marketing collaboration is critical for success.
    • How technology bridges the gap between these teams.

Key Quotes

  • Sean O’Shaughnessey:
    “Your journey to 2035 starts right now. By staying on outdated tools, you’re not just behind—you’re making it harder to catch up later.” (Approx. 00:06:06)
  • Kevin Lawson:
    “Technology is now part of the fabric of how we do business. If you want to grow and scale—or even just survive—adopting the right tools is the right battle to fight.” (Approx. 00:02:34)
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey:
    “Revenue solves all problems in companies, but only if your systems are set up to support it.” (Approx. 00:12:23)

Additional Resources

  • McKinsey Report on AI in Business: September 2024 Edition.
  • HubSpot Marketplace: Tools to integrate CRM with calling apps and social media management platforms.
  • Ninety.io: Software for tracking KPIs and achieving quarterly goals.

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Start with Your CRM:
Evaluate your current CRM system (or lack thereof) and its integration with other business tools. Focus on centralizing data and enabling seamless communication between teams. This single step can drastically improve productivity, forecasting accuracy, and cross-functional collaboration.

Why You Should Listen

This episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales is a must-listen for anyone looking to future-proof their business. Kevin and Sean offer practical advice and actionable strategies to help you streamline operations, adopt cutting-edge technologies, and align your team for success. Whether you’re planning for 2025 or 2035, the insights shared in this episode will set you on the path to achieving your goals.

Tune in and discover how to take your sales operations to the next level!

Adapting to the New Sales Landscape: The Importance of Omni-Channel Outreach

Adapting to the New Sales Landscape: The Importance of Omni-Channel Outreach

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Are you still relying on trade shows as your primary sales driver? The sales landscape has undergone a seismic shift. Those packed convention halls and endless rows of booths no longer serve as the bedrock of business development they once were.

Let’s talk about what works in today’s sales environment. Building an effective outbound pipeline isn’t just an option anymore – it’s your survival toolkit. But here’s the challenge: how do you stand out in a market where everyone’s fighting for attention?

Your unique value proposition makes all the difference. Yet many sales professionals miss a crucial point: your value proposition isn’t static. What resonates with a manufacturing client might fall flat with a distribution company. Have you tailored your message to address each industry’s pain points?

Think about your last prospecting campaign. Did you give up after four or five attempts? Research shows it takes 12 to 16 touches before prospects typically respond. This gap between persistence and practice often determines success or failure in modern sales.

The game has changed. Your prospects live in an omnichannel world. They check email between Zoom calls, scroll LinkedIn during lunch, and scan their phones throughout the day. How are you showing up in their digital world?

Consider this: every unanswered email or phone call might be a messaging problem. Are you talking about your features when you should be solving your prospects’ problems? Your prospects don’t care about your product specifications. They care about their challenges, their goals, and their bottom line.

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Selling Trust: The New Era of Salesmanship in the Digital Age

Selling Trust: The New Era of Salesmanship in the Digital Age

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Have you ever wondered why some salespeople consistently outperform their peers? The answer might surprise you – it’s not about pushing products anymore. Let me share a story that perfectly illustrates this point.

Picture yourself at a car dealership with a problematic engine. The service manager listens briefly and suggests trying premium fuel first instead of pushing for expensive repairs. This unexpected advice reveals the essence of modern sales: building trust over making quick profits.

The digital revolution has transformed how we sell. Your prospects now have instant access to product information, specifications, and reviews. They’ve often completed 70% of their buying journey before contacting you. So, what’s your role in this new landscape?

You must evolve from an information provider to a value creator. Think about it – when did a customer last ask you for basic product details? They don’t need that anymore. They need someone who can help them navigate complex decisions and create innovative solutions.

Consider enterprise software sales. Your customers aren’t just buying features and functions. They’re investing in solutions to their business challenges. Can you help them visualize how your product transforms their operations? Do you understand their workflow well enough to spot opportunities they might have missed?

Trust becomes your most powerful differentiator in this environment. But how do you build it? Through actions, not words. When you genuinely prioritize customer success over immediate sales, people notice. They remember when you steered them away from unnecessary purchases or suggested more cost-effective solutions.

The modern sales process demands a deeper understanding of your customer’s business context. You’re not just matching products to needs – you’re helping define those needs. What problems keep your prospects awake at night? Which industry trends threaten their market position? How can your solution help them stay competitive?

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Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – From CRM to AI: Building Your Sales Toolbox – E113

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – From CRM to AI: Building Your Sales Toolbox – E113

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

In this episode of “Two Tall Guys Talking Sales,” Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey dive into the critical tools every modern salesperson needs to thrive. Whether you’re equipping yourself in a tech-limited environment or looking to amplify your selling power with affordable tools, Kevin and Sean share practical insights from their decades of experience in sales and technology. This episode is packed with actionable advice for sales professionals looking to streamline their workflows and close deals more efficiently.

Key Topics Discussed

  • [00:01:00] Taking Notes Efficiently: The duo discusses tools like Evernote, OneNote, and even native apps like Notes, emphasizing the importance of accessible, synchronized note-taking for sales success.
  • [00:03:00] CRM Essentials: Why Outlook or spreadsheets don’t cut it as CRMs and affordable alternatives like HubSpot and Insightly that can transform your sales process.
  • [00:05:00] Integration is Key: Kevin highlights how integrating tools like email, CRMs, and AI writing assistants such as ChatGPT or Claude can create a seamless selling experience.
  • [00:07:30] Managing Mileage and Expenses: Sean introduces tools like MileIQ and Expensify to streamline mileage tracking and expense management for busy salespeople.
  • [00:12:00] Staying Top of Mind: How CRMs help salespeople maintain relationships by tracking the timing and content of client interactions.

Key Quotes

  • Kevin [00:05:00]: “Integrate everything. All of your tools should talk to each other—most of that, you’ll find under the marketplace of your CRM.”
  • Sean [00:04:00]: “Outlook is not a CRM. Gmail is not a CRM. They’re just tools. A true CRM system will help you relate multiple people together at the same company and keep track of your progress.”
  • Kevin [00:13:30]: “When we write to reconnect, it’s not about us; it’s about them. The fewer times you say ‘I, me, or my’ in an email, the better your message will land.”

Additional Resources

  • HubSpot CRM: A free CRM option for individual salespeople to manage contacts and deals.
  • Insightly CRM: A free CRM option for individual salespeople to manage contacts and deals.
  • MileIQ: A mileage-tracking app that simplifies expense reporting.
  • Expensify: A freemium tool to manage receipts and expenses with ease.
  • ChatGPT and Claude: AI writing tools that improve email and content creation for sales professionals.
  • Grammarly: An AI-powered writing assistant that enhances communication by providing real-time feedback on grammar, clarity, tone, and style across various platforms and devices.

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Build your integrated tech stack now. Start by selecting a free CRM like HubSpot or Insightly, then add complementary tools for note-taking, mileage tracking, and email integration. Use AI tools like ChatGPT to refine your communications and ensure every tool in your stack works seamlessly.

Summary

Whether you’re a tech-savvy salesperson or just starting to explore the power of modern tools, this episode offers a roadmap for building an affordable, effective sales tech stack. Kevin and Sean provide real-world examples and practical advice to help you stay organized, build stronger client relationships, and close deals faster. Don’t miss this episode—it could be the catalyst for taking your sales game to the next level. Listen now!

Unlocking Growth: How TriState Fabricators Transformed Their Sales Approach

Unlocking Growth: How TriState Fabricators Transformed Their Sales Approach

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

Have you ever wondered how a well-established manufacturing company can revolutionize its sales strategy? The journey of TriState Fabricators, a premier metal fabrication shop in the Midwest, offers compelling insights into this process. In a recent interview, I sat down with Joe Vogt, President and Owner, and Jonathon Padial, VP of Sales, to discuss their transformative experience.

With his 20-year tenure at TriState, Joe Vogt recognized the need for change to scale the business. The company’s sales approach was primarily reactive, relying on RFPs and inside sales personnel. But how do you shift from this traditional model to a proactive, growth-oriented strategy?

Enter the game-changers: a fractional VP of Sales, a robust CRM system, and comprehensive sales leadership training. These tools provided the structure and visibility that TriState had been lacking. Joe Vogt hired Sean O’Shaughnessey, CEO of New Sales Expert, to come in and revamp the sales organization and install best-in-class practices. Sean entered as the VP of Sales and quickly assessed the need to understand the deals better, so he installed Pipedrive as their CRM system. He also started to train the salespeople in the needed sales skills during L10-style meetings patterned after EOS L10 management meetings. To get closer to the biggest customers, the company started to have quarterly business reviews with the biggest and most profitable customers.

Vogt praises O’Shaughnessey several times in the full interview but at one place said, “So I look at Vistage as my board of directors essentially. You were an internal board member for me. I never met anybody with more sales knowledge in my life.”

After several months, Vogt and O’Shaughnessey agreed it was time for TSF to run autonomously and without Sean’s help. After an intense interview process, they hired Jonathon Padial to be Sean’s heir apparent in sales leadership. Coming from a software background, Jonathon continued the emphasis on Pipedrive and a structured sales process. “It’s allowed us to really capture more and for my team to see what’s coming in,” Padial noted. But is technology alone enough to drive change?

The fundamental transformation came from empowering the sales team. Vogt and Padial underwent Certified Sales Leadership (CSL) training, which Padial described as his “bible” for navigating leadership challenges. This training, coupled with their involvement in Vistage and implementing the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS), created a powerful trifecta for growth.

But how do you manage such significant changes in an established company culture? Vogt stressed the importance of communication and structure. “If you give structure with the change, it really helps. And you get the people to understand why you’re changing and what the benefits are going to be,” he explained. This approach has led to a more engaged and cohesive sales team than ever before.

Looking to the future, TriState Fabricators is poised for controlled, strategic growth. With plans to incorporate AI and new manufacturing technologies, they’re positioning themselves at the forefront of the industry. But as Padial reminded us, success in manufacturing isn’t just about technology – it’s about relationships and exceptional customer service.

Are you curious to hear more about TriState Fabricators’ journey and gain insights that could transform your business? The full video interview delves into their experiences, challenges, and strategies. It’s a must-watch for any business leader looking to drive growth and embrace organizational change. Don’t miss out on these valuable insights – check out the full interview today!

Mastering Sales in the Digital Age: A Case Study on Megan O’Hara

Mastering Sales in the Digital Age: A Case Study on Megan O’Hara

By Sean O'Shaughnessey

The sales landscape constantly evolves, and the tools and techniques used to reach potential clients are continually refined and reimagined. One such innovative approach to sales and marketing is pioneered by salespeople and sales managers leveraging technology to add value to their client relationships and boost their sales figures. 

Megan O’Hara, an executive solution specialist in Columbus, Ohio, is at the forefront of this movement. She has developed a unique method of reaching out to clients that adds value to their lives, increases her customer access, and builds her credibility. This method is simple yet impactful: Megan sends a weekly tech tip in a short video format every Monday.

This approach is designed to keep her name at the top of her clients’ minds. In a world where attention spans are increasingly limited and competition for customer attention is fierce, being the first person a client thinks of when they need a product or service is vital. By sending out these tech tips, Megan is providing a valuable service to her clients and ensuring that she remains at the forefront of their minds.

The success of this approach is evident in the response Megan has received from her clients. Many have contacted her after receiving her tech tips, expressing appreciation for her added value to their lives and initiating further business conversations. This is a clear testament to the power of this approach in building strong client relationships and driving sales.

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