Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Sales Strategies That Outperform AI Tools: ICP, Value Selling, and Revenue Management – Episode 150

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Sales Strategies That Outperform AI Tools: ICP, Value Selling, and Revenue Management – Episode 150

In today’s fast-changing sales landscape, everyone is talking about AI, automation, and digital tools, but are these the keys to sales success? In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey explore why documenting your sales processes, defining your ideal client profile (ICP), and sharpening your value selling approach must come before chasing shiny new technologies. Whether you’re leading a sales team or building revenue generation strategies as a business owner, this episode delivers practical advice for aligning business acumen with modern sales strategies.

Key Topics Discussed

  • [00:01:00] The foundational role of sales processes: Why documenting your sales processes is more important than rushing into automation or AI.
  • [00:03:00] Defining your Ideal Client Profile (ICP): How knowing precisely who you should sell to drives revenue management and sales success.
  • [00:06:00] AI without ICP is useless: Kevin explains why AI and automation fail without strong sales strategies and a written ICP.
  • [00:09:00] Automating bad processes makes junk faster: Sean shares insights from decades in sales and automation.
  • [00:12:00] Real growth impact: Data showing how companies with a documented ICP experience higher win rates, deal closure, and long-term revenue generation.

Key Quotes

  • Kevin Lawson [00:06:00]: “AI tools don’t work unless they are programmed to know what you’re trying to look for. If your value proposition and ICP aren’t documented, you’ve basically bought another untrained person.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey [00:10:23]: “If you automate a bad process, all you do is make junk faster. Get the basics right first.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey [00:12:57]: “Companies with a documented ICP have an account win rate 68% higher than those without one. That’s the power of clarity in sales processes.”

Additional Resources

  • Exclusive whitepapers on Ideal Client Profiles and Value Selling Propositions are available inside the B2B Sales Lab Community. www.b2b-sales-lab.com and go to the Sales Resources section.
  • Previous episode: Winning Sales Strategies for Productive, High-Impact Pipeline Reviews https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/winning-sales-strategies-for-productive-high-impact/id1668686029?i=1000721736213

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Write down your Ideal Client Profile (ICP).

Even if you think you already know your best customers, putting it in writing transforms sales management and revenue generation. A written ICP sharpens your messaging, aligns your sales processes, and empowers value selling. Without it, AI tools and automation will fail to deliver meaningful results.

Why You Should Listen

If you’re serious about sales success, this episode is a must. Kevin and Sean break through the noise of AI hype to uncover the timeless truths of revenue management, sales strategies, and business acumen. Learn how to strengthen your sales processes, improve messaging, and drive consistent revenue generation. Packed with stories, data, and practical wisdom, this episode equips you with the clarity needed to win more deals and build long-term sales success.

APIs Explained for Sales Leaders: Drive Growth Without Extra Headcount

APIs Explained for Sales Leaders: Drive Growth Without Extra Headcount

A sales manager recently told me, “I have to copy the same prospect data into five different tools. There has to be a better way.” That frustration is more common than most sales leaders realize, and fortunately, there is a better way.

The reality is that sales teams are hemorrhaging productivity due to disconnected systems. Top performers spend hours manually entering data, bouncing between platforms, and correcting inevitable errors. This administrative overhead steals time from the only activity that drives revenue: selling.

At Oracle, TIBCO Software, and Red Hat, we used to call this “system integration.” Today, the language has shifted, and we call it APIs. But while the terminology may have evolved, the underlying solution remains powerful—and far more accessible than ever. APIs act like invisible bridges, allowing your tools to communicate seamlessly without human intervention.

Think of APIs as the waiter in a restaurant. Your CRM (the customer) tells the waiter what it wants. The waiter goes to the kitchen (the external service), retrieves the order, and delivers it back to the table. Your sales team never sees the behind-the-scenes work, only the results. That’s the beauty of APIs: they quietly enable speed, accuracy, and scale.

The impact on sales organizations is profound. With API integrations in place, companies reduce administrative work by huge percentages, improve data accuracy through automated syncing, and shrink research time from hours to minutes. Sales velocity climbs when tools communicate directly, and managers gain real-time pipeline visibility that simply isn’t possible otherwise.

No-code integration platforms like n8n, Zapier, Make.com, and Microsoft Power Automate make APIs accessible to every sales team. Whether it’s automating lead enrichment, triggering email sequences, streamlining forecasting, or even preventing churn, APIs unlock productivity and accuracy at every stage of the sales process. These aren’t theoretical benefits—they’re measurable gains that compound over time.

The real question isn’t whether your team can benefit from APIs, but whether you’re willing to make the leap. Ask the right questions of your vendors. Start small with one or two integrations. Document and test your processes. And most importantly, free your team from administrative busywork so they can focus on delivering value to customers.

The future of B2B sales isn’t about choosing between humans and AI. It’s about humans amplified by AI. Let’s build that future together.

If you’d like to explore this topic in more depth, there’s a podcast episode that covers all of this information and more. You can find the link below and consider subscribing to the podcast AI Tools for Sales Pros on your favorite podcast player.

ChatGPT vs. Claude vs. Gemini vs. Copilot: Which AI Wins in Sales?

ChatGPT vs. Claude vs. Gemini vs. Copilot: Which AI Wins in Sales?

A few days ago, a sales manager asked me which AI platform to use for writing cold emails. I told him it depends on what kind of emails he’s writing, and he looked confused. That confusion is common and costly. ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, and Copilot all look similar at first glance, but in reality, they serve very different purposes depending on your sales workflow.

Choosing the right platform matters because the wrong choice drains time, creates change fatigue, and erodes ROI. Companies that align platform strengths to sales use cases are seeing dramatic results: 40% higher email response rates, 60% faster proposal generation, and triple the efficiency in call preparation. The stakes are high, and the decision deserves more than guesswork.

ChatGPT: The Versatile Performer
ChatGPT shines when creativity and personality are critical. It’s excellent for cold emails with humor, social selling posts, objection-handling scripts, and meeting prep. The downside? It can be verbose and sometimes casual for executive communication. If your team thrives on creativity and prospecting with personality, ChatGPT is a strong choice.

Claude: The Professional Communicator
Claude specializes in polished, business-appropriate communication. It’s strong for executive proposals, deal analysis, contract prep, and professional email sequences. While less creative than ChatGPT, it’s ideal for enterprise and strategic sales where tone, nuance, and professionalism are paramount.

Gemini: The Integrated Researcher
Google’s Gemini offers real-time research, market intelligence, and smooth integration with Google Workspace. It’s especially powerful for sales teams who rely heavily on spreadsheets, Gmail, and real-time prospect research. However, it may produce generic copy and come with potential data privacy concerns.

Copilot: The Enterprise Integrator
Microsoft Copilot excels in environments already standardized on Microsoft tools. Its strength lies in Outlook automation, PowerPoint proposals, Teams prep, and CRM integrations. While it can feel corporate and less creative, it’s perfect for organizations that value compliance, governance, and seamless integration across Microsoft 365.

Making the Right Choice
The best AI platform isn’t the one with the flashiest marketing; it’s the one your team will consistently use. Start by mapping your use cases: creative outreach, professional communication, research, or enterprise integration. Then run pilot programs, measure results, and refine your approach. Many sales teams find value in using more than one platform, each aligned to a different stage of the sales cycle.

The future of B2B sales isn’t about choosing between humans and AI. It’s about humans amplified by AI. Let’s build that future together.

If you’d like to explore this topic in more depth, there’s a podcast episode that covers all of this information and more. You can find the link below and consider subscribing to the podcast AI Tool for Sales Pros on your favorite podcast player.

Cut Through the AI Hype: Practical Definitions for Sales Professionals

Cut Through the AI Hype: Practical Definitions for Sales Professionals

Artificial intelligence is transforming sales, but too many leaders are investing in tools they don’t fully understand. The result? Costly mistakes, poor adoption, and missed opportunities. This episode of AI Tools for Sales Pros breaks down the three core technologies behind AI:

  1. Machine Learning (ML),
  2. Natural Language Processing (NLP),
  3. Large Language Models (LLMs)

and explains them in plain language that every sales professional can use.

The episode compares the current AI confusion to the database revolution of the 1990s. Just as sales leaders once needed to grasp relational databases or virtualization to sell effectively, today’s leaders must understand AI fundamentals to buy, implement, and coach effectively. Without this knowledge, vendor meetings become traps where features outshine true solutions.

Why Sales Leaders Need to Understand AI

  • Vendors are selling “AI-powered” tools that are often just automation with marketing polish.
  • ROI depends on knowing what you’re really buying.
  • Sales reps look to leadership for clarity and coaching on new technologies.
  • Competitive advantage comes from strategic implementation, not just adoption.

The Three Core AI Technologies

Machine Learning (ML): The pattern recognition engine. It predicts outcomes by analyzing historical sales data. Use cases: lead scoring, deal risk analysis, forecasting.

Natural Language Processing (NLP): The communication translator. It helps machines understand and analyze human conversations. Use cases: call transcription, sentiment analysis, chatbots, and objection detection.

Large Language Models (LLMs): The content creation powerhouse. They generate human-like content at scale. Use cases: personalized emails, proposals, meeting prep, follow-ups.

When the Technologies Work Together

The magic happens when ML, NLP, and LLMs integrate. Imagine: ML identifies the best prospects, NLP uncovers their communication style, and LLMs create personalized outreach. Companies are seeing 30%+ response rates with this integrated approach.

Misconceptions and Realities

  • Myth: AI replaces humans. Reality: It augments judgment.
  • Myth: More AI equals better results. Reality: Focused use beats scattered adoption.
  • Myth: AI requires massive data. Reality: Many sales AI tools work with modest data sets.

Action Steps for Sales Leaders

  1. Audit your current tools—identify which technologies you’re already using.
  2. Apply the vendor evaluation framework before making new purchases.
  3. Share these simplified definitions with your team.
  4. Connect with peers in the B2B Sales Lab community to learn from real implementations.

AI competency isn’t about programming—it’s about making better buying decisions and leading your sales team strategically. The future of B2B sales is not humans vs. AI—it’s humans amplified by AI.

👉 Register for your free 90-day membership at b2b-sales-lab.com and join the conversation.

AI in B2B Sales Isn’t Optional Anymore

AI in B2B Sales Isn’t Optional Anymore

Several months ago, I was serving as a fractional VP of Sales for a $50 million manufacturing company. Their top salesperson was a 15-year veteran who knew the industry inside and out. Yet he was consistently being outsold by a competitor’s much newer hire. At first, it didn’t make sense until we discovered the reason.

The competitor’s rep wasn’t just more energetic or aggressive. They were AI-enabled. While my client’s rep was manually scrolling LinkedIn and drafting emails from scratch, the competitor’s rep was using AI tools to research prospects, craft personalized outreach, and prepare for meetings. In other words, the competitor had a partner working 24/7—freeing them to focus on what humans do best: building trust and closing deals.

That was the turning point. I realized we weren’t just competing against other salespeople anymore. We were competing against AI-enhanced sales teams.

The Most Urgent Technology Wave in Sales

Throughout my career, I’ve watched new technology waves disrupt the sales profession. Robotics transformed manufacturing in the 1980s. Solid modeling replaced drafting tables in the 1990s. Cloud computing reshaped IT in the 2000s.

Each time, early adopters gained the edge while laggards struggled to catch up. The AI wave is different for two reasons:

  1. It’s broader: touching every aspect of sales, from prospecting to forecasting.
  2. It’s faster: companies have months, not years, to adapt before the competitive gap becomes overwhelming.

AI in sales isn’t coming. It’s already here.

The Four Pillars of AI Sales Transformation

To make sense of AI’s role in sales, I use a framework I call the Four Pillars of AI Sales Transformation.

1. Efficiency Amplification

Salespeople lose hours each week on research, data entry, and administrative tasks. AI automates these repetitive activities, turning wasted time into revenue-generating capacity. If a rep with a $2 million quota spends 40% of their time on admin work, reclaiming even half of that time can translate into hundreds of thousands of dollars in additional revenue potential.

2. Personalization at Scale

Buyers expect relevance. AI enables sales teams to tailor outreach at a scale that was previously impossible. One client of mine went from producing 10 personalized emails per day to 500, each one referencing company news, industry pain points, or competitive dynamics. The result: higher engagement and faster response times.

3. Predictive Intelligence

AI spots patterns humans miss. It identifies which deals are at risk, when prospects are most likely to respond, and which leads are worth pursuing first. For one client, simply shifting demos to Tuesday afternoons increased conversion rates by 40%. When your competitors are guessing, AI gives you confidence.

4. Continuous Learning & Optimization

Unlike static playbooks, AI evolves. It analyzes win/loss data, tests messaging, and provides real-time coaching insights. One client discovered that pricing discussions were their biggest choke point. AI flagged the pattern, we built automated battlecards, and close rates improved by 18%.

Real-World Results

These aren’t theoretical benefits. In my own client work:

  • An AI-powered prospecting rollout increased appointment-setting rates from 8% to 23% in just six weeks.
  • A lost-deal analysis uncovered patterns that helped recover $2 million in the pipeline.

The reality is clear: companies already experimenting with AI are pulling ahead. Those who delay are watching the gap widen daily.

Three Things You Can Do This Month

If you’re ready to start, here are three immediate steps:

  1. Audit your workflow. Identify one repetitive task you can automate—prospect research, meeting prep, or follow-up emails.
  2. Pilot an AI tool. Start small with an affordable, no-code platform. Many cost less than $200/month.
  3. Learn with others. Don’t navigate this change alone. Surround yourself with peers who are experimenting, learning, and winning with AI.

Join the B2B Sales Lab

The best way to accelerate your adoption is to connect with others on the same journey. That’s why we built the B2B Sales Lab, a private, member-led community for sales professionals who want actionable insights, not theory. It’s where strategy meets execution.

In the Lab, you can:

  • Ask real questions about sales challenges.
  • Share proven best practices.
  • Learn from other sales professionals and veteran leaders.

Your first 90 days are free. Join us today at b2b-sales-lab.com.

The future of B2B sales isn’t about choosing between humans and AI. It’s about humans amplified by AI. Those who adapt now will thrive. Those who wait may not get the chance to catch up.

To learn more, listen to this podcast on the subject.

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Workflows, Automation, and AI: Building a Smarter Sales Organization – Episode 145

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Workflows, Automation, and AI: Building a Smarter Sales Organization – Episode 145

In this compelling episode, co-hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey delve into the crucial distinctions between workflows, automations, and artificial intelligence (AI), and why understanding these differences isn’t just technical trivia, but foundational to improving sales processes, enhancing sales management, and accelerating revenue generation. If you’re a sales leader, business owner, or B2B rep striving to improve how you use technology to boost sales success, this episode is a must-listen. Packed with real-world examples and expert commentary, you’ll walk away with a clearer understanding of how to integrate automation and AI into your selling environment without losing the human touch that drives value selling.

Key Topics Discussed

  • The Distinction Between Workflow and Automation (approx. 01:00)
    Kevin and Sean explain that workflows are rule-based sequences (what should happen), while automations are system-triggered actions (when they happen).
  • Applying Workflow and Automation to Common Sales Scenarios (approx. 03:00)
    Sean walks through onboarding, fulfillment, and follow-up processes that can be automated to save time and reduce human error.
  • The Role of AI in Enhancing Sales Tasks (approx. 05:00)
    Discover how AI moves beyond automation by adding intelligence and insight, like writing customized thank-you messages or enriching CRM data.
  • What Sales Leaders Should Expect from Modern CRM Systems (approx. 12:00)
    Sean lays out a vision of AI-enabled CRMs that proactively suggest key contacts and actions for deeper account penetration.
  • Creating Sales Infrastructure That Supports Scale (approx. 09:00)
    Kevin emphasizes how business logic, automation, and AI build a more agile, informed sales team that’s prepared for disruption.

Key Quotes

  • Kevin Lawson (approx. 00:46):
    “Workflows are trigger-based events that tell business logic what to do next… but automation is what makes things happen automatically, without human intervention.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey (approx. 05:43):
    “We used to personalize thank-you letters with a person. Now we can automate that process and use AI to generate something that’s still meaningful but takes no time.”
  • Kevin Lawson (approx. 10:00):
    “AI plus workflows plus automation creates the bedrock for a better sales organization… a more nimble organization that can adapt to changes in the environment.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey (approx. 13:08):
    “Does your CRM say, ‘Did you know there are three directors of manufacturing at that company?’ That’s where workflows, automation, and AI converge to fuel revenue growth.”

Additional Resources

  • Join the B2B Sales Lab Community – A peer-driven space where sales professionals, managers, and leaders exchange insights, share best practices, and build smarter revenue systems.

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast

Audit your CRM and lead-handling processes.
Ask yourself: Is my CRM working for me, or am I working for it? Review whether incoming leads are routed automatically, if emails are logged without manual entry, and whether sales leaders receive alerts on stalled opportunities. Implement at least one automation or AI-powered enhancement, such as auto-logging emails or enriching lead data, to eliminate repetitive tasks and enable your team to focus on strategic selling.

Why You Should Listen Now

This episode isn’t just a primer on sales tech buzzwords; it’s a blueprint for operational excellence in B2B sales. Kevin and Sean break down complex topics with clarity and offer practical advice that can immediately improve your sales team’s responsiveness, accountability, and business acumen. If you’re serious about building a scalable sales infrastructure, aligning your team with cutting-edge sales strategies, and using AI as a force multiplier for your messaging and revenue management, then queue up this episode today. You’ll walk away with new ideas, sharper thinking, and a to-do list worth acting on.

B2B Sales in the Age of AI: Why Top Salespeople Will Thrive While the Repetitive Roles Disappear

B2B Sales in the Age of AI: Why Top Salespeople Will Thrive While the Repetitive Roles Disappear

The buzz surrounding artificial intelligence has left many professionals wondering about the future of their careers. For B2B sales professionals, the rise of AI presents a fundamental question: Will AI replace salespeople?

The short answer is no, but it will replace some of their work. More accurately, AI will redefine the B2B sales landscape by eliminating lower-value activities, consolidating support roles, and enhancing the capabilities of top performers. In doing so, it will widen the gap between average and great salespeople.

Several years ago, I wrote a similar explanation about the fear that “the internet” would replace salespeople. That didn’t happen. You can find that article on the blog that supports my first sales book. Are salespeople necessary in the Internet age?

This blog post explores how B2B sales is positioned relative to AI disruption, referencing key insights from Benjamin Todd’s article, “How Not to Lose Your Job to AI” (80,000 Hours, 2025). Todd’s framework on skill types that increase in value in the age of AI helps us understand how high-functioning sales teams should evolve and how sales professionals can future-proof their careers.

Understanding AI’s True Impact: Augmentation, Not Replacement

A common misconception about AI is that it simply replaces humans. This isn’t true. AI devalues tasks it can perform while increasing the importance of the skills it cannot. Todd explains this dynamic through examples like the ATM: while the ATM reduced the need for transactional teller tasks, it actually increased demand for bank branch workers by allowing banks to open more branches. AI follows a similar pattern.

In B2B sales, AI will handle the most automatable tasks, such as data entry, follow-ups, list-building, and basic prospecting emails. However, this doesn’t eliminate the sales role; it sharpens its focus.

Instead of dialing hundreds of prospects daily, sales professionals will focus more on strategic engagement, account planning, and using AI-generated insights to elevate conversations. The result? Sales has become a more thoughtful, human, and strategic discipline for those who can keep up.

Four Categories of Skills That AI Will Make More Valuable

In Todd’s excellent article, he identifies four skill types that increase in value in an AI-enhanced workplace:

  1. Hard-to-automate skills
  2. Deployment-related skills
  3. Scarce, high-utility skills
  4. Skills hard for others to learn or replicate

Each of these aligns tightly with the demands of modern B2B sales.

Read the rest of the article…
Validation Events: The Unsung Hero of Sales Process Discipline

Validation Events: The Unsung Hero of Sales Process Discipline

In the complex world of B2B selling, trust is built in stages. The challenge in all sales campaigns is ensuring the prospect trusts they are making the best decision for their business.

  1. Do they trust that the salesperson is giving them all of the information?
  2. Do they trust that the company will support them after the sale?
  3. Do they trust that the product will perform as they expect it to perform?

As I have explained in my book, Eliminate Your Competition, as well as the blog for that book and in this blog, the prospect needs to trust all three elements the salesperson is selling:

  1. They need to trust the product.
  2. They need to trust the company behind the product.
  3. They need to trust the salesperson.

Prospects listen to your sales message, review your materials, and hear your claims, but none of that guarantees belief or trust. Trust is validated when your claims are validated. That’s why validation events are crucial to any rigorous sales process.

In The Qualified Sales Leader, John McMahon stresses the importance of customer-driven validation. He cautions sales leaders against relying on internal optimism or anecdotal “good signals” from prospects. Instead, McMahon emphasizes observable proof—real buyer behavior that confirms alignment, commitment, and value. Validation events are when the customer takes action to validate that what you’ve promised is accurate and valuable.

An excellent sample sale process flow looks like this:

  1. Discover
  2. Scoping
  3. Economic Buyer Meeting
  4. Validation Event
  5. Business Case and Final Proposal
  6. Negotiate and Close

As you can see, the Validation Event is the last step before creating the final business case, which will be bundled with your final proposal.

Read the rest of the article…
Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Steve Caton Shares When to Sell, When to Coach, and When to Hire: Strategic Sales Management That Drives Growth – Episode 137

Two Tall Guys Talking Sales – Steve Caton Shares When to Sell, When to Coach, and When to Hire: Strategic Sales Management That Drives Growth – Episode 137

In this powerful episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O’Shaughnessey are joined once again by Steve Caton, CEO of Altezza Solutions, for a thought-provoking conversation that zeroes in on one of the toughest decisions in sales leadership: when to sell, when to coach, and when to hire. Whether you’re a business owner, VP of Sales, or a player-coach juggling a quota and a team, this episode brings clarity to the strategic inflection point where growth hinges on letting go. With frank discussion, lived experience, and tactical advice, Kevin, Sean, and Steve guide you through the complex terrain of sales management, revenue generation, and scaling your team without sacrificing results.

Key Topics Discussed:

  • [00:01:58] The pros and cons of player-coach sales roles, and why this model often fails without intentional strategy
  • [00:05:34] How to create a psychologically safe sales environment where learning from failure drives sales success
  • [00:07:11] Steve Caton’s personal transition from sales operator to CEO—and how it triggered exponential business growth
  • [00:09:20] The difference between hiring to “swim faster” and hiring to scale—how business acumen guides the decision
  • [00:13:00] Real-world use cases for fractional sales roles to test new markets or offerings without disrupting core revenue streams

Key Quotes:

  • Kevin Lawson [00:04:57]: “Sometimes you have to let people fail. You can’t push them into failure, but you do have to give them the room to learn. The challenge is, as a leader, you’re still accountable for that failure.”
  • Sean O’Shaughnessey [00:04:01]: “It’s much easier to do one thing well. Let great salespeople sell and great managers manage—don’t dilute either role.”
  • Steve Caton [00:08:30]: “I made the decision to stop selling before I could afford it. Why? Because I knew the payoff would be big. Sometimes, you just have to invest in your business to grow.”
  • Kevin Lawson [00:11:34]: “A sales process with control metrics, plus intentional feedback loops, informs exactly how and where your business should grow.”

Additional Resources:

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast:

Reevaluate your team structure and decide: are you scaling or surviving?
If you’re a business owner or sales leader wearing multiple hats, it’s time to assess whether you’re enabling growth or capping it. Consider where your time is most valuable—rainmaking, coaching, or closing—and invest in building the right team around you. Start with fractional or part-time hires to test new roles or markets, then double down when the data supports it.

Closing Summary:

This episode cuts through the noise around sales team building with a refreshing mix of vulnerability, experience, and strategic depth. Whether you’re weighing your first sales hire or deciding to step out of the player-coach role, Two Tall Guys Talking Sales delivers real-world sales strategies that help you align your messaging, sales processes, and revenue management decisions with long-term growth. Don’t miss this one—it’s 15 minutes of business-building insight that could change the trajectory of your sales organization. Hit play now and discover how letting go might be the smartest way to grow.